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Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

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Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#81

Post by MarkusQ »

kokken wrote: post #79

The reason why people form two lines to board the Marunouchi line in Ikebukuro is not because they prioritize seating, or going as soon as possible. The true reason is that the line forks into two lines later on, with the final station being either Honancho or Ogikubo. The second line that form is just for the people whose destination would not be served by the incoming train.

Would be interested in a source for this claim, but it from the map it at least looks reasonable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marunouchi_Line#/media/File:To...

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#82

Post by ux266478 »

skolskoly wrote: post #80
gsf_emergency_6 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds more like irony than sarcasm But maybe that's my English-media tainted view of sarcasm as something quite unfunny (and also socially .. deficient?) Different take from mine here tho :) https://www.thescop.com/archive/2011/09/irony-vs-sarcasm > Sarcasm happens when the observed irony does not extend to the speaker.

>Sarcasm happens when the observed irony does not extend to the speaker. This seems... dead wrong. In the examples in the article, both comic frames function as sarcasm, because everyone involved has no illusion that anyone is going to die if they don't see the film. The irony is entirely in the speaker's statement, which everyone knows to be false, including them. People treat 'ironic insults' as sarcasm, but this o…

TBH I don't agree with the idea that sarcasm is exclusively the friendly variety. It also serves the role of being patronizing, scornful or even outright provocation.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#84

Post by skolskoly »

ux266478 wrote: post #82
skolskoly wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sarcasm happens when the observed irony does not extend to the speaker. This seems... dead wrong. In the examples in the article, both comic frames function as sarcasm, because everyone involved has no illusion that anyone is going to die if they don't see the film. The irony is entirely in the speaker's statement, which everyone knows to be false, including them. People treat 'ironic insults' as sarcasm, but this o…

TBH I don't agree with the idea that sarcasm is exclusively the friendly variety. It also serves the role of being patronizing, scornful or even outright provocation.

To be clear, I don't disagree with you, and to say otherwise wasn't my point. I do think people get confused to the point where they for some reason start labeling all sarcasm as type A or B, and the entire value of the term gets lost.

The way I see it, the non-friendly type shares a lot in common with the concept of shibboleth. Which is to say, you can absolutely make sarcastic insults to the detriment of someone else for your own, or a friend's enjoyment, by relying on shared exclusive knowledge. (In essence, holding that shared context above the other person in contempt) However, you can also just be abrasive for your own enjoyment, and that's something entirely differently. (Sadism, for example, is not inherently sarcastic) People frequently confuse the two, but without ironic context - a knowledge of false belief - it is not ironic, and therefore not sarcasm.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#85

Post by toast0 »

bsder wrote: post #68
throw7 wrote: post #28

Queueing culture is hilarious. Indians > Italians (ok, Italians are probably more entertaining), brits (I imagined them trying to bring queueing to indians and gave up... although india does have a semi-line culture in limited ways nowadays). As an american, grocery checkout queueing always angered me.

> As an american, grocery checkout queueing always angered me. It should, because practically everywhere in the US does it wrong. There should be a single entry queue that distributes to the multiple handlers. Instead, you wind up with multiple queues so that people get hung up behind someone causing slow handling. The one that infuriates me are bank queues. Look, folks, both queuing theory and experience show that y…

> There should be a single entry queue that distributes to the multiple handlers.

Sure, that's more fair. But it also means everyone has to walk over to the queue entry. And often requires dedicated floorspace. If there's not good queuing discipline, it leads to larger gaps between customers at the registers and poor throughput. If there's a queue minder (which there probably should be in order to distribute people into subqueues), that person can steer customers to benefit their favorite register people: this was common at Fry's; register operators got a commission, so and some queue mindets would collude steer expensive carts to preferred registers.

Multiple independent queues works fairly well and avoids extensive coordination. Even if people don't like it.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#87

Post by anigbrowl »

ux266478 wrote: post #82
skolskoly wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sarcasm happens when the observed irony does not extend to the speaker. This seems... dead wrong. In the examples in the article, both comic frames function as sarcasm, because everyone involved has no illusion that anyone is going to die if they don't see the film. The irony is entirely in the speaker's statement, which everyone knows to be false, including them. People treat 'ironic insults' as sarcasm, but this o…

TBH I don't agree with the idea that sarcasm is exclusively the friendly variety. It also serves the role of being patronizing, scornful or even outright provocation.

Sarcasm is never friendly; it's necessarily at the expense of someone else. The simplest example is where someone makes a bold claim and someone else says 'sure, buddy...' to express contemptuous disbelief via the weakest possible form of assent. The claimant here wants to be believed, or at least agreed with.

Irony is imho much more complex and variegated, but a simple example would be any sort of self-deprecating humor, where someone is making fun of the mismatch between their aspirations and their capacity to achieve them. Irony isn't necessarily mean, whereas sarcasm is always a little bit mean even if it's mild.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#88

Post by anigbrowl »

bsder wrote: post #68
throw7 wrote: post #28

Queueing culture is hilarious. Indians > Italians (ok, Italians are probably more entertaining), brits (I imagined them trying to bring queueing to indians and gave up... although india does have a semi-line culture in limited ways nowadays). As an american, grocery checkout queueing always angered me.

> As an american, grocery checkout queueing always angered me. It should, because practically everywhere in the US does it wrong. There should be a single entry queue that distributes to the multiple handlers. Instead, you wind up with multiple queues so that people get hung up behind someone causing slow handling. The one that infuriates me are bank queues. Look, folks, both queuing theory and experience show that y…

Instead, you wind up with multiple queues so that people get hung up behind someone causing slow handling.

Have you tried not caring about how fast the other queue is moving? IF you are in a hurry then most stores have 'quick registers' for people who are buying less than 10 or some similarly low number of items. And obviously if you get behind someone with a full cart you'll be waiting a bit longer, but you can only guess about the last person in the queue. But if I'm not in a hurry and have too many groceries to go through the express lane, I don't see the point in staring at other lines and being upset if one is moving faster than yours. Over time this is one of those things that just averages out.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#89

Post by acheron »

anigbrowl wrote: post #88
bsder wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an american, grocery checkout queueing always angered me. It should, because practically everywhere in the US does it wrong. There should be a single entry queue that distributes to the multiple handlers. Instead, you wind up with multiple queues so that people get hung up behind someone causing slow handling. The one that infuriates me are bank queues. Look, folks, both queuing theory and experience show that y…

Instead, you wind up with multiple queues so that people get hung up behind someone causing slow handling. Have you tried not caring about how fast the other queue is moving? IF you are in a hurry then most stores have 'quick registers' for people who are buying less than 10 or some similarly low number of items. And obviously if you get behind someone with a full cart you'll be waiting a bit longer, but you can only…

By the efficient market hypothesis, if a spot in another queue was quicker someone would have already taken it.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#90

Post by anigbrowl »

socalgal2 wrote: post #48
rayiner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got involved in my community and active in the political movements here. When you start making issues visible and get your neighbors vocalizing the issues themselves But you didn't actually succeed in cleaning up New York, right? So maybe the problem is a culture that prioritizes "making issues visible" and engaging the "community" in "political movements," instead of every parent teaching their child from a youn…

Is it a culture of "not my problem"? Maybe bad example but, Let's say you spill some food at a fast food place, shopping mall, airport. Do you make an effort to clean it up yourself or are you like "It's someone's job to clean this place therefore I can just leave it for them". Maybe that's too harsh an example but I see locals cleaning the streets in Japan, not government hired street sweepers. I don't know the deta…

It's a mix of things. Japan's reputation for extreme cleanliness was partly engineered in preparation for the 1964 Olympics, in which organizers spent ~5% of the budget on beautification efforts. Arguably they started out from a higher personal baseline with bathing culture and there's also issues of population density, monoculture, and social sanctions. But there's also something of a gap between trope and reality; public urination is pretty common in Japan, especially at night, which shocks some people.
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