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5,300-year-old 'bow drill' rewrites story of ancient Egyptian tools

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Re: 5,300-year-old 'bow drill' rewrites story of ancient Egyptian tools

#81

Post by 12345hn6789 »

lostlogin wrote: post #72
thordenmark wrote: post #60

Conspiracy theorists have long pointed out the obviously drilled holes in stonework that was >5000 years old. Of course they want to attribute it to lost advanced technology, but the more believable answer is that ancient Egyptians had really refined mundane tools like a bow drill. I still want to know how the scoop marks were made in the ancient quarries. What tool could do that?

After a search for scoop marks I found this (second image in particular). Is this what you mean? https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternativeHistory/comments/u33lbj/...

Yes these are found in a few places in Egypt and notably some are dug vertically [0]. Along with these "scoop" marks there are a few tombs "boxes at serapeum" that have nearly perfectly squared off cuts and perfectly smooth surfaces. [1] These are the main points of contention

We are leaning into conspiracy theories / not accepted history but making these marks with the currently thought tools seems quite insensible, and are related to the article. Folks seem to think we have not found the real tools that created these structures. The vertical inward scoop marks are especially suspect.

[0] - https://www.theancientconnection.com/aswan-unfinished-obelis...

[1] - https://www.theancientconnection.com/megaliths/egypt/the-ser...

Re: 5,300-year-old 'bow drill' rewrites story of ancient Egyptian tools

#82

Post by mmooss »

andrewflnr wrote: post #79
mmooss wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> laughably Ridicule is the refuge of those without an argument. Maybe try standup or Twitter.

Maybe try actually reading what the person you're arguing with is saying and responding to that.

IMHO when we choose ridicule, we destroy that relationship - we make clear we are uninsterested in what the other person has to say or in reason, or even in respecting them on a basic level, and that we lack worthwhile arguments. I stop reading there. I understand the temptation but life is too short.

Re: 5,300-year-old 'bow drill' rewrites story of ancient Egyptian tools

#84

Post by vee-kay »

ReptileMan wrote: post #54
vee-kay wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do a web search for "Wootz steel", "Damascus blades" and "Iron pillars India". The ancient world certainly had expertise in advanced metallurgy. Wootz steel was actually nanotech.

Except it wasn't. It relied on contaminated ore, which nobody understood really why it worked. Unlike bronze that was well understood.

Contaminated?! Nobody understood?!

You clearly haven't bothered to do your research.

But we cannot blame you for your ignorance.

It took many years, but modern scientists have finally reverse engineered Wootz steel to understand its incredible secrets, and identified that Wootz steel was the result of extraordinary metallurgical processes with scientific acumen and excellence based on multiple millenia of research, experimentation and practice in ancient India.

"conclusive evidence of the carbon nanostructure in the carburising slag from 400 BCE to 16th century CE, covering 2000 years of technological continuity": https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01675...

"Modern analysis of surviving Wootz ingots has revealed the critical presence of these impurities. Silicon, for instance, is thought to have aided in the complete removal of sulfur during the smelting process, a common contaminant that can lead to brittle steel. Phosphorus, on the other hand, while often considered detrimental in steelmaking, appears to have been essential in the formation of specific microstructures within the Wootz. The exact ratios and interactions of these elements were likely a result of empirical knowledge, painstakingly acquired through trial and error over centuries." https://www.realloreandorder.com/the-ancient-nanotechnology-...

A legend reborn: Additive manufacturing creates Wootz-Damascus steel: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/mrs-bulletin/article...

Carbon nanotechnology in an 17th century Damascus sword Discover the secret behind the legendary Damascus blades and how carbon nanotubes shaped sword-making techniques of ancient blacksmiths: https://www.discovermagazine.com/carbon-nanotechnology-in-an...

Re: 5,300-year-old 'bow drill' rewrites story of ancient Egyptian tools

#85

Post by MarkusQ »

Intermernet wrote: post #53
MarkusQ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite frustrating how archeology swings over the years from "we'll believe anything" to "we won't accept any claim without a preserved example". While some of the excesses of the past were clearly excessive, drilled holes should have been sufficient evidence of drills, people living on islands should be sufficient evidence of boats, rope-worn bones should be considered evidence of rope and so forth.

This is true, but archaeology has been settled for a while now on what constitutes sufficient evidence. Believe it or not, it's actually a pretty new science.

Or will be, soon. :)

Re: 5,300-year-old 'bow drill' rewrites story of ancient Egyptian tools

#86

Post by andrewflnr »

mmooss wrote: post #82
andrewflnr wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe try actually reading what the person you're arguing with is saying and responding to that.

IMHO when we choose ridicule, we destroy that relationship - we make clear we are uninsterested in what the other person has to say or in reason, or even in respecting them on a basic level, and that we lack worthwhile arguments. I stop reading there. I understand the temptation but life is too short.

Oh, so you pattern-matched on a single word and skipped the part where I did, in fact, make an argument. Great work.

But more importantly, where did MarkusQ ridicule you? What's your excuse for not reading what they actually said, but instead imagining something they said that was conveniently easy to criticize?

The important part of my phrase "laughably bad-faith" was the bad-faith part. That's what destroys "that relationship".

Re: 5,300-year-old 'bow drill' rewrites story of ancient Egyptian tools

#87

Post by Jerrrrrrrry »

lostlogin wrote: post #71
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but didn’t our wrists evolve because of all the fire-starting?

Arsonists being more developed hominids?

Arsonist wouldnt exist if there was nt general fascination with fire in most people.

Neanderthals existed just fine without it for some time, interestingly.

Re: 5,300-year-old 'bow drill' rewrites story of ancient Egyptian tools

#89

Post by ReptileMan »

vee-kay wrote: post #84
ReptileMan wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it wasn't. It relied on contaminated ore, which nobody understood really why it worked. Unlike bronze that was well understood.

Contaminated?! Nobody understood?! You clearly haven't bothered to do your research. But we cannot blame you for your ignorance. It took many years, but modern scientists have finally reverse engineered Wootz steel to understand its incredible secrets, and identified that Wootz steel was the result of extraordinary metallurgical processes with scientific acumen and excellence based on multiple millenia of research, e…

Or it was just the vanadium and molybdenum traces in the ores combined with the high carbon content that created a proto carbide steel. The moment those ores ran out they couldn't create it any more.

Re: 5,300-year-old 'bow drill' rewrites story of ancient Egyptian tools

#90

Post by vee-kay »

ReptileMan wrote: post #89
vee-kay wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contaminated?! Nobody understood?! You clearly haven't bothered to do your research. But we cannot blame you for your ignorance. It took many years, but modern scientists have finally reverse engineered Wootz steel to understand its incredible secrets, and identified that Wootz steel was the result of extraordinary metallurgical processes with scientific acumen and excellence based on multiple millenia of research, e…

Or it was just the vanadium and molybdenum traces in the ores combined with the high carbon content that created a proto carbide steel. The moment those ores ran out they couldn't create it any more.

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