Earlier quoted context omitted.
How far back do you have to go for Microsoft to be seen as "good" the way Google was?
Windows XP for me
.NET and VS Code gave some people the impression that MICROS~1 had become good and nice.
Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number
81–90 of 388 posts
Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number
#82So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…
> In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly. These times never existed.
I'm getting tired of these comments that normalize being in the middle of the slippery slope as if it is merely the same as being at the top of the slippery slope was. They may not have been "good" times, but they were certainly better times when government agencies at least aimed to carry out their roles in good faith rather than minmaxing the rules to cause the most damage to enemies of the Party. Applying judgement while exercising delegated authority is exactly why these agencies were given wide leeway in the first place. And while we can say this was naive, it is even more naive to normalize the current behavior.
Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number
#83When I was a student, I could never have gone to such lengths to avoid government scrutiny. He must have plenty of money.
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Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number
#84Just out of curiosity. Are there any companies today that are seen the way Google used to be seen, as a generally “good” corporation/companies that are also a important player? Maybe Mozilla Foundation?
Anthropic seems to be chasing that angle (c.f. their run of "AI that doesn't advertise to you" commercials).
Come back in 2-3 years. I bet will be one of the worst if still around
Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number
#85Just out of curiosity. Are there any companies today that are seen the way Google used to be seen, as a generally “good” corporation/companies that are also a important player? Maybe Mozilla Foundation?
Maybe proton, but even that… is not great.
Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number
#86So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…
"Administrative subpoenas" have always been bullshit that mostly rely on there being no penalty for companies that hand over user information to anyone with a badge and then justify it with a five-hundred-page TOS document.
There is a case to be made that administrative subpoenas can be good. They save taxpayers money, they speed up investigations, and they free up the court for more important matters.
As with all things though, these agencies should not be self-regulated without civilian and judicial oversight.
Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
For a normal subpoena from a court, yes. For an "administrative" subpoena from an agency, they take a risk in court. Judicial review is deferred . If Google thinks the subpoena is egregious, they can go to court and argue. But in the meantime they can either carry it out or risk being held in contempt if they don't and lose in court.
According to this article, it is treated as a request and often denied by the company. The target of the warrant did go to court to quash it, but that was already after Google declined to share the information. https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2026/02/03/hom... edit: it appears that either 1. the Washington Post is printing misinformation, or 2. I have made a grave misinterpretation.
Washington Post can be relied on to publish disinformation, not just misinformation:
https://bsky.app/profile/cingraham.bsky.social/post/3mecltnb...
Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google, among most other tech companies, deny portions of administrative warrants. Here's a story about someone who was stressed out about their notification by Google (spoiler, Google decided to deny the government's request) https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2026/02/03/hom... edit: It appears that this outcome is an outlier and most admin warrants are honored. It is unfortunate to see the Washington Pos…
Hence, why I wonder if this is specific their credit/banking products as part of Know Your Customer rules.
Google does not provide those products (not in the US, as far as I am aware), but they are a money transmitter in the same vein as Square/Block, Stripe, and Venmo [0]. They won't be directly subject to the Bank Secrecy Act, but they partner with the major payment networks (who have their own rules and their own partner programs with banks) as part of Google Pay and customer payment profiles.
But I don't think this matters much for this case, as DHS is not investigating financial crimes. This is about what discretion Google has to comply with administrative warrants, which is not settled law and isn't clearly spelled out in their own policy.
0: https://support.google.com/googlepay/answer/7160765?hl=en
Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number
#89What are some ways users can insulate themselves from something like this?
Be outside the US and/or don't use products from US companies?
Believe it or not, tech companies must comply with the authorities of countries they operate in. They're also not required to tell you, sometimes they're compelled to not tell you.
The idea that a tech company can outright oppose the state is pure fantasy... They still must operate within laws.
Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't use products from large US tech companies? Apple has a slightly better track record than Google of fighting this stuff, but ultimately if you're using a product from a US tech company then it's likely ICE can get their grubby little mitts on everything that company knows about you
Are they going to stop because a company fights a subpoena? Or perhaps in the case of some touted alternatives, even if a subpoena were acted upon, no data would be intelligible? Maybe they'll just show up to your house next time. I'm not sure why people complain about US companies complying with US government subpoenas. Isn't that how it is supposed to work? Imagine if the opposite were routine, would you like that?…
It's more nuanced than "the federal government is too powerful." I feel more like non-law-enforcement agencies like ICE are too powerful right now, but I also believe that the FBI and the DOJ had a good mandate that should be preserved. And I also believe that antitrust needs to be a high priority. Please don't lump me in with people who just want to tear it all down so they can live in a fiefdom. There are good people in the US government, and there are good things about it. It's just not all of it is good and none of us can agree at all times on what's bad here.