Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

rte.ie

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 162 posts

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#81

Post by nyeah »

rootusrootus wrote: post #72
nyeah wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he were here illegally, they wouldn't need him to agree to be deported.

That does not make any sense. They just offered him the chance to waive the court process and go back to Ireland immediately. It does not mean that he must be here legally . It just means that a court will have to make that determination before any further steps can be taken.

If he had been found to be here illegally, they would not need him to voluntarily consent to being deported. I hope that's obvious.

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#82

Post by jshier »

stackskipton wrote: post #66
idle_zealot wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A law cannot overturn the Constitution, you need an Amendment for that. In principle, anyway. If you have a Supreme Court that abdicates its duties then you can do whatever you want, at the cost of legitimacy.

According to Congress and blessed by Supreme Court, immigration law is civil, not criminal and therefore all criminal due process law does not apply. It's been that way for over 40 years so yes, according to Congress/SCOTUS, this is legal.

The nuances of criminal procedure may not apply, but the fundamental constitutional rights still do, as well as human rights. Indeterminate detention violates both.

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#83

Post by unethical_ban »

muricula wrote: post #5
TitaRusell wrote: post #2

[flagged]

So you don't care if injustice happens to other people, only if it could happen to you?

I had a family member imply that it's okay for ICE to stop and harass non white people because "let's face it, most illegals aren't white".

Rights are optional, for other people.

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#85

Post by stackskipton »

jshier wrote: post #82
stackskipton wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Congress and blessed by Supreme Court, immigration law is civil, not criminal and therefore all criminal due process law does not apply. It's been that way for over 40 years so yes, according to Congress/SCOTUS, this is legal.

The nuances of criminal procedure may not apply, but the fundamental constitutional rights still do, as well as human rights. Indeterminate detention violates both.

Indeterminate detention without end goal violates the law. However, my guess is process is moving along, just extremely slowly.

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#86

Post by rayiner »

jshier wrote: post #79
rayiner wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statute is exceedingly clear. Subsection (a) first says: "An alien present in the United States who has not been admitted or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters) shall be deemed for purposes of this chapter an applicant for admission." Subse…

That applies to those who step across the border as part of a border crossing or rescue. The court decision applies it to all aliens, which is the never before applied part of GP.

The whole point of subsection (a)(1) is to treat all aliens similarly to those who cross the border for purposes of the chapter. Subsection (a)(1) is titled "Aliens treated as applicants for admission."

Subsection (a)(1) then says that "[a]n alien present in the United States who has not been admitted or who arrives in the United States ... shall be deemed for purposes of this chapter an applicant for admission."

Who is covered by the phrase "an alien present in the United States who has not been admitted?" What else could that phrase possibly be referring to?

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#87

Post by _DeadFred_ »

nyeah wrote: post #56
ktm5j wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, thanks to the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 that's not exactly true anymore. You can be detained and deported without first seeing a judge.

(1) "Judge" is not necessarily identical with "due process." (2) Congress can't override constitutional protections by passing new laws. That would require a constitutional amendment.

Also 'immigration judge' is not an Article III Judge for the purposes of Constitutional requirements.

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#88

Post by jshier »

stackskipton wrote: post #85
jshier wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nuances of criminal procedure may not apply, but the fundamental constitutional rights still do, as well as human rights. Indeterminate detention violates both.

Indeterminate detention without end goal violates the law. However, my guess is process is moving along, just extremely slowly.

A distinction without a difference, and it's questionable whether deportation is actually the goal here. If that were the case they could put him on plane today.

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#89

Post by tencentshill »

0xy wrote: post #38
Thrymr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making a lot of assumptions here that are not supported by the article. In any case, if his application is not valid, they can deny his green card application. Why throw him in a detention center for months instead of going through the process? Is he a flight risk? Where would he go?

I did not assume anything. He specifically mentions he was able to work because of an EAD associated with his I-485 Adjustment of Status application, which is the only possible pathway to green card after marriage to a USC. There is no U.S. visa which allows 20 year stays with no work authorization. Doesn't exist. So he entered illegally. >Why throw him in a detention center Because he committed immigration fraud? Ov…

The letter of the law is not black and white. Think critically - why did they turn a relatively blind eye to this issue in all past administrations? Immigrants of any kind are a net benefit to the wealthy and powerful. No billionaire obeys the law to the letter either. It would be nice if we enforced the written law with this level of zeal upon the rich. Pay taxes in "creative" ways? Hire an illegal? Straight to jail, no bail, maximum fine.

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#90

Post by rayiner »

Terr_ wrote: post #44
rootusrootus wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says he refused to sign the deportation paperwork, does that not mean that his continued detention is a choice under his control? He could agree to return to Ireland and they would put him on a plane.

Compare: "The man refused to sign confession-papers, so that means his continued imprisonment is actually a choice under his control. He could simply confess to jaywalking, and they'd rip him away from his family and life and exile him to the streets of another country within a mere day or two. No problem." Abject surrender in the face of threats/violence is always, technically, a fast resolution to anything, but it'…

He's already confessed! He admits he came here under the Visa Waiver Program, overstayed the 90 day limit, and that, as a result, he can be removed without proceedings for a determination of deportability: https://www.universalhub.com/files/attachments/2026/culleton...

"Thus, individuals that entered the country under VWP are removable 'without referral of the alien to an immigration judge for a determination of deportability.' See 8 C.F.R. § 217.4(b)(1). Culleton concedes he is removable under the VWP. Reply 10."

Post reply on HN