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Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

marginalrevolution.com

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Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#81

Post by Saline9515 »

notahacker wrote: post #59
yanhangyhy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who is "we"? many chinese people, it's kind of joke but still..also true on many levels. > I'm not sure it rises to the most troubling qualities of NK its run by a dictator from the begining, with many strange laws to tell the people not to do this and not to do that. the major difference is that Singapore is pro-west (and pretend to be neutral) so no trash talk from the western media and its portrayed as a 'democr…

This is the "dictator" that you're allowed to run for election against and the "no chewing gum" bylaws Singaporeans sell T-shirts joking about the system to foreigners, right? Try doing that in mainland China...

There are many ways to keep yourself (and your son, after, like in SG). You can use arbitrary force and secret police, as it is the case in DPRK or China.

Or you can use the fact that you basically own the State to pit everything against your political opponents. There are various ways to do this, and at different intensities. SG's PAP is famous for using lawfare against political bloggers, newspapers and political opponents who question their rule.

Western democracies, where the selectorate is currently fearing for a populist takeover has started to do the same: German politicians filed more than 4,000 defamation cases, vague "hate speech laws" allow to selectively try your opponents, the State funds compliant press and NGOs, and so on. The EU functions in a way that democratic oversight and popular will is so dilluted that it isn't a real constraint, while keeping the "democratic" varnish and some legitimacy.

At least in SG, DPRK or China, things are clear and not hypocritical, maybe it's better for everyone.

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#82

Post by badc0ffee »

maxglute wrote: post #69

Singapore was never "cool" as long as I remember in Asian expat circles since 90s. It's like the nice clean manicured places where boring expats who enjoys boiled potatoes and chicken breasts without spice settle. Dubai without all the high quality sin.

I thought Dubai was Dubai without all the high quality sin.

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#83

Post by maxglute »

badc0ffee wrote: post #82
maxglute wrote: post #69

Singapore was never "cool" as long as I remember in Asian expat circles since 90s. It's like the nice clean manicured places where boring expats who enjoys boiled potatoes and chicken breasts without spice settle. Dubai without all the high quality sin.

I thought Dubai was Dubai without all the high quality sin.

Tame Orchard towers and four floors of whores never produced dubai chocolate tier of memes. Singapore is Disney with death penalty. Dubai is Disney with Minnie Mouse scat play. Hilariously, both great places to raise kids if you stick to the main attractions.

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#84

Post by alephnerd »

lostmsu wrote: post #46
alephnerd wrote: post #10

It hasn't been cool for a long time. My dad was offered Singaporean citizenship in the 1990s despite then being an Indian national but decided to immigrate to the US to work in tech in Silicon Valley instead and raise us. This is a pretty common story among Bay Area Chinese and Indian Americans who immigrated during that era. In the 90s and 2000s, Singapore's value add was that it could act as a door into China, Indi…

This changed back to the advantage of Singapore when China cracked down on HK.

For the average HKer - absolutely. Most of my HK native friends and colleagues who could immigrated to London, SG, NYC as a result.

For a business - it depends on how dependent they are on ExChina capital markets or customers.

If you were a company that was primarily and overwhelmingly operating within China, after the changes there was no incentive not to shift most of your operational and executive staff to Shanghai.

If you weren't one of those, then shifting to Singapore makes sense.

The issue for Singapore is Indian companies have started making the same decisions as those China First companies, so Singapore has lost it's comparative advantage within Asia, as Western FDI remains prominent but is increasingly either routed directly or (in India's case) through challengers like the UAE or London.

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#86

Post by alephnerd »

tim333 wrote: post #80
alephnerd wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> celebrity economist's That is what MarginalRevolution is. It's fairly heterodox by most standards, but not in the good way. > the factors that help Singapore be an Asian or often global hub in so many respects are still running strong, no Nope. If I can now IPO in China or India with Singapore level valuations and attract Singapore level deal sizes, why would I as a Chinese or Indian want to dedicate significant ca…

India and China don't have the low tax stable capitalist system thing that Singapore has. In some ways it's advantage has increased now Hong Kong is part of China.

> low tax stable capitalist system thing that Singapore has

I can say from personal professional experience that historically businesses are domiciled in Singapore primarily for us investors in Western capital markets to enter China, India, and ASEAN.

For capital that is already located in China, India, and parts of ASEAN (primarily Vietnam), that becomes less attractive, especially because China, India, and Vietnam all operate SEZs that have aligned with western corporate law or have BITs signed with major western financial hubs (eg. Pudong SEZ, GIFT City SEZ), so we don't need to route via SG to the same degree we did 20 years ago.

Additionally, if we want to exit our investments in China or India, we have no choice but to list on a Chinese (including Hong Kong) or Indian stock exchange because no other Asian market has comparable trade volume, which makes exits difficult.

Finally, what differentiates Singapore from the Dubai or London? Depending on where you are investing in Asia, you may end up getting much more preferential access from either of those two instead of Singapore.

This is why Singapore has lost it's mojo - it can't differentiate itself as a financial services center and Singapore never really had a strong innovation sector.

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#87

Post by ergocoder »

notahacker wrote: post #39
arduanika wrote: post #16

Cool? Out of all the major world commercial hubs, wasn't it always the hottest and muggiest?

Everywhere you need to be is air conditioned, which is pretty cool I guess... (Humidity's high but peak temperatures aren't particularly extreme; it's just never cold)

That's just south east asia in general.

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#88

Post by jhanschoo »

budududuroiu wrote: post #14

TIL detention without trial is a thing in Singapore [^1], ministers love to brag about increasing the severity of detention without trial [^2], and that the longest someone was held in detention without trial in Singapore was 23+9 years [^3]. That person was never charged. [^1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Law_(Temporary_Provis... [^2]: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/my-views-on-... [^3] h…

Regarding [2], what arguments did that politician put forth and what are your thoughts on the strength of those arguments?

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#89

Post by lostmsu »

alephnerd wrote: post #84
lostmsu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This changed back to the advantage of Singapore when China cracked down on HK.

For the average HKer - absolutely. Most of my HK native friends and colleagues who could immigrated to London, SG, NYC as a result. For a business - it depends on how dependent they are on ExChina capital markets or customers. If you were a company that was primarily and overwhelmingly operating within China, after the changes there was no incentive not to shift most of your operational and executive staff to Shangha…

Jane Street moved a lot of people out.

Re: Why is Singapore no longer "cool"?

#90

Post by alephnerd »

lostmsu wrote: post #89
alephnerd wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the average HKer - absolutely. Most of my HK native friends and colleagues who could immigrated to London, SG, NYC as a result. For a business - it depends on how dependent they are on ExChina capital markets or customers. If you were a company that was primarily and overwhelmingly operating within China, after the changes there was no incentive not to shift most of your operational and executive staff to Shangha…

Jane Street moved a lot of people out.

IK. Jane Street - like other Western financial institutions - has been de-risking out of China for a couple years now.

That's why I wrote the comment below:

"If you were a company that was primarily and overwhelmingly operating within China, after the changes there was no incentive not to shift most of your operational and executive staff to Shanghai.

If you weren't one of those, then shifting to Singapore makes sense."

Jane Street isn't dependent on Chinese markets. It primarily operates in Western markets with speculative bets in Asian markets excluding China such as SGX and NSE+BSE in India (albeit with a massive regulatory target on their back).

China has done infringed on it's agreement with the HK people, but not all capital in Greater China is Western and is increasingly Chinese originated.

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