There are much better invisible mass surveillance devices like the one you carry around in your pocket every day.
Elevator pitch: ankle monitor phone case
WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system
81–90 of 199 posts
Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system
#82This is a VERY controlled environment - and they used 20 passes of each person walking with direct knowledge of each person to train for identity. They did no tests with multiple people walking at the same time, or with any other external moving distortion effects (doors opening, etc) . This is very far from actual 'identification' of people in real public settings - and no doubt the cell phone everyone is carrying w…
Unless they start storing data about your specific gait & posture, skull shape, limb dimensions and build up a "fingerprint" of your body.
Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system
#83Not sure how many people are aware that the newer Alexa devices have "presence detection" that uses ultrasound so they can detect when people are nearby. [0] Heck, even Ecobee remote temperature sensors can do this. Reminds me of the story about how the Google Nest smoke detector had a microphone in it. [1] 0 - https://www.amazon.com/b?node=23435461011&tag=googhydr-20&hv... 1- https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comment…
That reminds me of the other story where the Pixel phones come with a microphone that turns on every time you make a call! The phone actually records audio and sends it remotely to someone else.
Wait a minute...
Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system
#84Caveat: Indoors. However, since indoors is typically a private space, the degree of surveillance depends on the owner of the space. Civilians can only compel government agencies to make sure that government buildings do not enable tracking. We won't be able to stop Walmart, they can always play the security card which trumps privacy every time.
Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system
#85WiFi Sensing is part of Wi-Fi 7 and present in most recent laptops and smartphones. Local NPU machine learning can be combined with WiFI radar. Malware can attack phone and radio basebands and exploit this capability. It can uniquely fingerprint human biometrics, measure breathing rate, record keystrokes and more. Thousands of academic papers have been published in the last 15 years on "device free wireless sensing", before the capability was ratified by IEEE as 802.11bf. It's being rolled out commercially. Mitigations include drywall or insulation with a layer of RF shielding.
"Xfinity using WiFi signals in your house to detect motion", 500 comments, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44426726#44427986
"Wi-fi signal tracks heartbeat without wearables", 80 comments, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45488908
2022 laptop demo of respiration sensing, https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/research/respiration... | https://community.intel.com/t5/Blogs/Tech-Innovation/Client/...
2025 biometric signature, https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/22/whofi_wifi_identifier...
> Researchers.. developed.. a biometric identifier for people based on the way the human body interferes with Wi-Fi signal propagation.. CSI in the context of Wi-Fi devices refers to information about the amplitude and phase of electromagnetic transmissions.. interact with the human body in a way that results in person-specific distortions.. processed by a deep neural network, the result is a unique data signature.. [for] signal-based Re-ID systems
Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system
#86Caveat: Indoors. However, since indoors is typically a private space, the degree of surveillance depends on the owner of the space. Civilians can only compel government agencies to make sure that government buildings do not enable tracking. We won't be able to stop Walmart, they can always play the security card which trumps privacy every time.
Walmart has no need for this, they can already surveil you better with actual cameras and microphones.
Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system
#87This is a VERY controlled environment - and they used 20 passes of each person walking with direct knowledge of each person to train for identity. They did no tests with multiple people walking at the same time, or with any other external moving distortion effects (doors opening, etc) . This is very far from actual 'identification' of people in real public settings - and no doubt the cell phone everyone is carrying w…
Exactly. All of these stories using WiFi to detect things with high accuracy are just extreme machine learning demos. Given a tightly controlled environment and enough training data, you can use a lot of things as sensors. These techniques are not useful for general purpose sensing, though. The WiFi router in your home isn't useful for this.
today's tech demos are tomorrow's everyday
Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system
#88Not sure how many people are aware that the newer Alexa devices have "presence detection" that uses ultrasound so they can detect when people are nearby. [0] Heck, even Ecobee remote temperature sensors can do this. Reminds me of the story about how the Google Nest smoke detector had a microphone in it. [1] 0 - https://www.amazon.com/b?node=23435461011&tag=googhydr-20&hv... 1- https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comment…
Every capacitor can be a potential microphone ...
Make that "every vibrating surface can be a potential microphone ..."
Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system
#89Not sure how many people are aware that the newer Alexa devices have "presence detection" that uses ultrasound so they can detect when people are nearby. [0] Heck, even Ecobee remote temperature sensors can do this. Reminds me of the story about how the Google Nest smoke detector had a microphone in it. [1] 0 - https://www.amazon.com/b?node=23435461011&tag=googhydr-20&hv... 1- https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comment…
>newer Alexa devices have "presence detection" Not even the biggest privacy issue of using Alexa devices. I think listening you 24/7 is a bigger potential issue. Not sure if Alexa has this, but cheap mm-wave wideband multi-GHz sensors(or radars more accurately) now enable more finely grained human presence detection and also human fall detection[1] with the right algos, so you can for example detect if grandma in the…
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