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2 in 5 Americans did not read a single book in 2025

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Re: 2 in 5 Americans did not read a single book in 2025

#81

Post by D-Machine »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #76
D-Machine wrote: post #67

Who cares? So much books are just slop (pulp), or, these days, over 70% filler. Even if they are "decent" fiction or non-fiction, the majority still are almost entirely shallow entertainment, whether explicitly or implicitly as simplistic "edutainment" of some kind. There are blogs, articles, technical papers, heck, even user discussions that contain far greater depth and/or demand far greater attention and mental wo…

I find enjoyment in everything you mentioned (been reading since the Slate Star Codex days!) and I read a good mix of all book types, so I want to offer some gentle push-back. Reading fun fantasy books allows you to take your inner child and imagination out to play, not everything needs to be serious, intellectually challenging, or highly stimulating. Sometimes you have to let your imagination run free and just have…

> I want to offer some gentle push-back

Nothing you've said here is push-back or contradicts anything I've said, IMO.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying slop, junk food, fast food, camp, kitsch, low-brow entertainment, or any kind of mindless dreck or low-quality anything. The same goes for enjoying mediocrity. It would be hell to only ever spend time consuming tedious, difficult, challenging, or novel things.

What is wrong is pretending that a broad category like "books" is any kind of indicator of intelligence or meaningful cultural cachet. I.e. "'Americans are reading less books' is bad" suggests zero consideration of things like differences in value and depth, and that is what is anti-intellectual (or midwit) about such remarks.

Re: 2 in 5 Americans did not read a single book in 2025

#82

Post by tstrimple »

raincole wrote: post #12

> 8 Books - Average number of books Americans read in 2025. However, the median American only read 2 books, showing that heavy readers significantly increase the overall average. I don't know, my reaction is "wow, Americans truly love reading," or alternatively, "they really like to boast their numbers even in anonymous surveys." Even if you only read fiction, 8 books are like 500k to 100k words. That's a lot of word…

My wife and I are both "book a week minimum" readers. In 2025 she finished 80 novels. I was in the mid 70's. We've been doing this basically since middle school uninterrupted. Reading is just our preferred form of consumption based entertainment. Last year we watched maybe five movies and I finally got my wife to sit through the fourth season of The Wire. The only "modern" show we're actively watching is The Pitt.

It's starting to sound like reading books has a similar distribution as consuming cannabis. The "daily" users account for 3/4ths of the spending on cannabis despite being 1/3rd of overall users. The heavy consumers consume A LOT and skew the statistics.

Re: 2 in 5 Americans did not read a single book in 2025

#83

Post by jacquesm »

tstrimple wrote: post #82
raincole wrote: post #12

> 8 Books - Average number of books Americans read in 2025. However, the median American only read 2 books, showing that heavy readers significantly increase the overall average. I don't know, my reaction is "wow, Americans truly love reading," or alternatively, "they really like to boast their numbers even in anonymous surveys." Even if you only read fiction, 8 books are like 500k to 100k words. That's a lot of word…

My wife and I are both "book a week minimum" readers. In 2025 she finished 80 novels. I was in the mid 70's. We've been doing this basically since middle school uninterrupted. Reading is just our preferred form of consumption based entertainment. Last year we watched maybe five movies and I finally got my wife to sit through the fourth season of The Wire. The only "modern" show we're actively watching is The Pitt. It…

I read a lot as well but I do find that my retention has slipped compared to some years ago.

Re: 2 in 5 Americans did not read a single book in 2025

#84

Post by eudamoniac »

D-Machine wrote: post #70
paulryanrogers wrote: post #7

What about audio books, magazines, news, websites, studies? Reading is so much more than curated dead trees.

People that think "reading books" generically is anything to be impressed about have been woefully out of touch for well over a decade. After you've done about 50 or so major classics, selected broadly from different thinkers and authors, it is clear the vast majority of most books have negligible additional value. This can all be done quickly in your late teens to early twenties, after that, there is no real need to…

I'd say more like 500. There is no end to worthwhile books to read, you just won't find them in the NYT best sellers. The complete works of Shakespeare is like 35 "books" already.

Agreed to your larger point that reading is of itself not worthwhile. Reading great works of literature broadly is.

Re: 2 in 5 Americans did not read a single book in 2025

#85

Post by D-Machine »

eudamoniac wrote: post #84
D-Machine wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People that think "reading books" generically is anything to be impressed about have been woefully out of touch for well over a decade. After you've done about 50 or so major classics, selected broadly from different thinkers and authors, it is clear the vast majority of most books have negligible additional value. This can all be done quickly in your late teens to early twenties, after that, there is no real need to…

I'd say more like 500. There is no end to worthwhile books to read, you just won't find them in the NYT best sellers. The complete works of Shakespeare is like 35 "books" already. Agreed to your larger point that reading is of itself not worthwhile. Reading great works of literature broadly is.

I waffled on choosing 100-250 initially, thinking similarly as you for authors like Shakespeare, Freud, Nietzsche, etc.

But then I kind of thought, for most people, that is probably overkill. If you stick with just one text from each great author, 50 is still a huge variety relative I think to what was available to people in the past. More is great, but not necessary: there are plenty of other sources of depth in life beyond texts, and text doesn't work well for everyone either.

Re: 2 in 5 Americans did not read a single book in 2025

#86

Post by eudamoniac »

D-Machine wrote: post #85
eudamoniac wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say more like 500. There is no end to worthwhile books to read, you just won't find them in the NYT best sellers. The complete works of Shakespeare is like 35 "books" already. Agreed to your larger point that reading is of itself not worthwhile. Reading great works of literature broadly is.

I waffled on choosing 100-250 initially, thinking similarly as you for authors like Shakespeare, Freud, Nietzsche, etc. But then I kind of thought, for most people, that is probably overkill. If you stick with just one text from each great author, 50 is still a huge variety relative I think to what was available to people in the past. More is great, but not necessary: there are plenty of other sources of depth in lif…

Fair enough. I'd say there are over 500 "worth reading" but I agree with you too that with 50 or fewer you can have enough. People used to re-read texts dozens of times and that may actually be better in some ways than the constant novelty.

Re: 2 in 5 Americans did not read a single book in 2025

#87

Post by D-Machine »

eudamoniac wrote: post #86
D-Machine wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I waffled on choosing 100-250 initially, thinking similarly as you for authors like Shakespeare, Freud, Nietzsche, etc. But then I kind of thought, for most people, that is probably overkill. If you stick with just one text from each great author, 50 is still a huge variety relative I think to what was available to people in the past. More is great, but not necessary: there are plenty of other sources of depth in lif…

Fair enough. I'd say there are over 500 "worth reading" but I agree with you too that with 50 or fewer you can have enough. People used to re-read texts dozens of times and that may actually be better in some ways than the constant novelty.

Yup, don't disagree with you at all here.

Re: 2 in 5 Americans did not read a single book in 2025

#89

Post by tstrimple »

jacquesm wrote: post #83
tstrimple wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I are both "book a week minimum" readers. In 2025 she finished 80 novels. I was in the mid 70's. We've been doing this basically since middle school uninterrupted. Reading is just our preferred form of consumption based entertainment. Last year we watched maybe five movies and I finally got my wife to sit through the fourth season of The Wire. The only "modern" show we're actively watching is The Pitt. It…

I read a lot as well but I do find that my retention has slipped compared to some years ago.

Books are entertainment for me. Even when I watched more movies and TV, I didn't remember everything I watched. I've definitely read beyond my preferred genre's "greatest hits" and am sometimes pretty deep into the daytime TV section of novels. I'm okay not remembering all of them.

Re: 2 in 5 Americans did not read a single book in 2025

#90

Post by Loughla »

jedberg wrote: post #49
Loughla wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read something simple and fun after kids go to bed while you're staring into the abyss before you go to bed. Science fiction and fantasy work well. The Dungeon Crawler Carl books really help my brain take a break without actively disengaging the actual thinking parts.

> while you're staring into the abyss before you go to bed I feel like I'm doing it wrong (or maybe right?), but I don't have that time. I'm asleep a minute after I lay down. In fact it's been an issue because the kids sometimes want me to lay down with them to fall asleep, and then I fall asleep in their bed!

So when my kids were little, I read them bedtime stories. They loved the adventures that they got to hear about when I read books like Guards! Guards! And the Dark Elf Trilogy.

Win win baby. They get easy to digest fun stories, and I get to read fun books that I like.

Also, and everyone will tell you this but I can't stress enough how true it is, value your time with them when they're little. It's exhausting, awful, stressful, and seriously exhausting (yes that gets two call outs), but it goes so fast. It just goes so fast. You get into a groove and it's five years later. Then ten. They're only little once, and while that means you should try your best to make sure they have a good childhood - seriously don't forget to enjoy them just for yourself. Be selfish. Snuggle them every chance you get. Hold their little hands. Carry them everywhere. Call in sick to work to play dress up or build a fort or just look at bugs. Skip social obligations to eat popcorn and watch a movie with them. Give them kisses and hugs and be selfish about it. It's for them but it's also for you. A lot of parents forget that.

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