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X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

bbc.com

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Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#81

Post by chrisjj »

moolcool wrote: post #59
chrisjj wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Are you implying that it's not abuse to "undress" a child using AI? You should realize that children have committed suicide before because AI deepfakes of themselves have been spread around schools. Just because these images are "fake" doesn't mean they're not abuse, and that there aren't real victims.

> Are you implying that it's not abuse to "undress" a child using AI?

Not at all. I am saying just it is not CSAM.

> You should realize that children have committed suicide before because AI deepfakes of themselves have been spread around schools.

Its terrible. And when "AI"s are found spreading deepfakes around schools, do let us know.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#82

Post by chrisjj »

mfru wrote: post #66
chrisjj wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure does. Twice. E.g. Musk's social media platform has recently been subject to intense scrutiny over sexualised images generated and edited on the site using its AI tool Grok.

CTRL-F "grok": 0/0 found

You're using an "AI" browser? :)

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#84

Post by chrisjj »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #50
robtherobber wrote: post #3

> The prosecutor's office also said it was leaving X and would communicate on LinkedIn and Instagram from now on. I mean, perhaps it's time to completely drop these US-owned, closed-source, algo-driven controversial platforms, and start treating the communication with the public that funds your existence in different terms. The goal should be to reach as many people, of course, but also to ensure that the method and…

I agree with you. In my opinion it was already bad enough that official institutions were using Twitter as a communication platform before it belonged to Musk and started to restrict visibility to non-logged in users, but at least Twitter was arguably a mostly open communication platform and could be misunderstood as a public service in the minds of the less well-informed. However, deciding to "communicate" at this d…

> official institutions were using Twitter as a communication platform before it belonged to Musk and started to restrict visibility to non-logged in users

... thereby driving up adoption far better than Twitter itself could. Ironic or what.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#85

Post by chrisjj »

rsynnott wrote: post #51
afavour wrote: post #14

I’m sure Musk is going to say this is about free speech in an attempt to gin up his supporters. It isn’t. It’s about generating and distributing non consensual sexual imagery, including of minors. And, when notified, doing nothing about it. If anything it should be an embarrassment that France are the only ones doing this. (it’ll be interesting to see if this discussion is allowed on HN. Almost every other discussion…

> If anything it should be an embarrassment that France are the only ones doing this. As mentioned in the article, the UK's ICO and the EC are also investigating. France is notably keen on raids for this sort of thing, and a lot of things that would be basically a desk investigation in other countries result in a raid in France.

Full marks to France for addressing its higher than average rate of unemployment.

/i

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#86

Post by vessenes »

btreecat wrote: post #13
vessenes wrote: post #9

Interesting. This is basically the second enforcement on speech / images that France has done - first was Pavel Durov @ Telegram. He eventually made changes in Telegram's moderation infrastructure and I think was allowed to leave France sometime last year. I don't love heavy-handed enforcement on speech issues, but I do really like a heterogenous cultural situation, so I think it's interesting and probably to the ove…

>but I do really like a heterogenous cultural situation Why isn't that a major red flag exactly?

Hi there - author here. Care to add some specifics? I can imagine lots of complaints about this statement, but I don't know which (if any) you have.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#87

Post by vessenes »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #38
vessenes wrote: post #9

Interesting. This is basically the second enforcement on speech / images that France has done - first was Pavel Durov @ Telegram. He eventually made changes in Telegram's moderation infrastructure and I think was allowed to leave France sometime last year. I don't love heavy-handed enforcement on speech issues, but I do really like a heterogenous cultural situation, so I think it's interesting and probably to the ove…

Very different charges however. Durov was held on suspicion Telegram was willingly failing to moderate its platform and allowed drug trafficking and other illegal activities to take place. X has allegedly illegally sent data to the US in violation of GDPR and contributed to child porn distribution. Note that both are directly related to direct violation of data safety law or association with a separate criminal activ…

I like your username, by the way.

CSAM was the lead in the 2024 news headlines in the French prosecution of Telegram also. I didn't follow the case enough to know where they went, or what the judge thought was credible.

From a US mindset, I'd say that generation of communication, including images, would fall under speech. But then we classify it very broadly here. Arranging drug deals on a messaging app definitely falls under the concept of speech in the US as well. Heck, I've been told by FBI agents that they believe assassination markets are legal in the US - protected speech.

Obviously, assassinations themselves, not so much.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#88

Post by chrisjj »

afavour wrote: post #23
cbeach wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when notified, doing nothing about it When notified, he immediately: * "implemented technological measures to prevent the Grok account from allowing the editing of images of real people in revealing clothing" - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8gz8g2qnlo * locked image generation down to paid accounts only (i.e. those individuals that can be identified via their payment details). Have the other AI companies fo…

You and I must have different definitions of the word “immediately”. The article you posted is from January 15th. Here is a story from January 2nd: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c98p1r4e6m8o > Have the other AI companies followed suit? They were also allowing users to undress real people No they weren’t? There were numerous examples of people feeding the same prompts to different AIs and having their requests ref…

> Which is an entirely different legal liability.

In UK, it is entirely the same. Near zero.

Making/distributing a photo of a non-consenting bikini-wearer is no more illegal when originated by computer in bedroom than done by camera on public beach.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#89

Post by vessenes »

logicchains wrote: post #36
vessenes wrote: post #9

Interesting. This is basically the second enforcement on speech / images that France has done - first was Pavel Durov @ Telegram. He eventually made changes in Telegram's moderation infrastructure and I think was allowed to leave France sometime last year. I don't love heavy-handed enforcement on speech issues, but I do really like a heterogenous cultural situation, so I think it's interesting and probably to the ove…

>but I do really like a heterogenous cultural situation, so I think it's interesting and probably to the overall good to have a country pushing on these matters very hard Censorship increases homogeneity, because it reduces the amount of ideas and opinions that are allowed to be expressed. The only resilience that comes from restricting people's speech is resilience of the people in power.

You were downvoted -- a theme in this thread -- but I like what you're saying. I disagree, though, on a global scale. By resilience, I mean to reference something like a monoculture plantation vs a jungle. The monoculture plantation is vulnerable to anything that figures out how to attack it. In a jungle, a single plant or set might be vulnerable, but something that can attack all the plants is much harder to come by.

Humanity itself is trending more toward monoculture socially; I like a lot of things (and hate some) about the cultural trend. But what I like isn't very important, because I might be totally wrong in my likes; if only my likes dominated, the world would be a much less resilient place -- vulnerable to the weaknesses of whatever it is I like.

So, again, I propose for the race as a whole, broad cultural diversity is really critical, and worth protecting. Even if we really hate some of the forms it takes.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#90

Post by chrisjj »

derrida wrote: post #22
cbeach wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when notified, doing nothing about it When notified, he immediately: * "implemented technological measures to prevent the Grok account from allowing the editing of images of real people in revealing clothing" - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8gz8g2qnlo * locked image generation down to paid accounts only (i.e. those individuals that can be identified via their payment details). Have the other AI companies fo…

The other LLMs probably don't have the training data in the first place.

Er...

"Study uncovers presence of CSAM in popular AI training dataset"

https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/20/csam_laion_dataset/.

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