Live data from Hacker News

Nvidia's 10-year effort to make the Shield TV the most updated Android device

arstechnica.com

81–90 of 218 posts

Re: Nvidia's 10-year effort to make the Shield TV the most updated Android device

#81
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple TV's pretty good. I imagine I'd have a hard time switching to a Shield TV unless it gets a CPU bump, whereas Apple still keeps making newer models with modern-ish phone SoCs.

What makes the Apple TV desirable? It’s $185. Why would I choose it over a Roku $30 or Ultra $80?

High end model is $150 (US). Very fast and yes Apple gets some of your info but it's not getting resold to advertisers and 3rd parties. Generally speaking doesn't require adware to keep the price low.

Re: Nvidia's 10-year effort to make the Shield TV the most updated Android device

#83
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not ironic, its perfect business sense. 10 years ago they gave a shit about gamers and streamers as they were their main market. Now its all about AI server hardware, and they are fighting off international mega clients who all want to secure their chip output for years to come. Why would Nvidia give 2 hoots about a living room streaming box now?

Because having all your eggs in one basket (GPUs), especially when that basket is artificially huge and likely to crumble, (AI Bubble), is a TERRIBLE idea?

Corporations dont think like that.

They look at market segment 1 (gamers) and see millions, possibly hundreds of millions.

They look at market segment 2 (ai) and they see hundreds of billions, possibly trillions.

Its a public company with shareholders and a board of directors to appease, the decision is an easy one.

Re: Nvidia's 10-year effort to make the Shield TV the most updated Android device

#84

Everyone is missing the why here, this only happens because the whole stack is vertically integrated. Even if say LG wanted to make a box like this and update it for 10 years they couldn’t, they don’t make the chips. Qualcomm straight up refuses to support chips through this many Android releases. Even if device manufacturers want to support devices forever it won’t matter if the actual SoC platform drops support.

While the vertical integration is definitely the best way to get it done, it's not strictly required as long as there is good enough documentation for a platform. Linux originally supported Intel without any Intel engineers even knowing it existed.

Also consider Apple's chips, which have gotten Linux support without Apple ever submitting a single line of code.

While Qualcomm's behaviour is definitely a massive bummer (not to mention Qualcomm's competitors), it doesn't stop manufacturers from supporting their devices. It merely stops maintaining support from being cheap and easy.

Re: Nvidia's 10-year effort to make the Shield TV the most updated Android device

#85

Everyone is missing the why here, this only happens because the whole stack is vertically integrated. Even if say LG wanted to make a box like this and update it for 10 years they couldn’t, they don’t make the chips. Qualcomm straight up refuses to support chips through this many Android releases. Even if device manufacturers want to support devices forever it won’t matter if the actual SoC platform drops support.

If you read the article the actual "why" is because the CEO personally requested it and gave an effectively unlimited budget.

No need to be rude. The person above is adding a new insight to the conversation.

Vertical integration makes it possible but motivation makes it happen. Where is Samsung's ultra LTS Exynos device?

Re: Nvidia's 10-year effort to make the Shield TV the most updated Android device

#86
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

replacing launcher is gonna take you 10-15mins. 30 max if you aren’t a complete fool.

Oh, I've seen instructions, most of them start with "enable dev mode, then use adb to run ton of inscrutable commands that may or may not break the system over time". Overall, it seems like a recipe to end up in an unknown state where you can no longer easily get updates and the only recovery is to wipe the system. I've seen similar methods to "Clean up Windows 11", and it always seems like you're just putting the de…

Friend, you are #11 on the leaderboard here on HN and you stated that enabled dev mode is too scary. I promise you, you have the skillset to research that your worries are false and you can accomplish this easier than rebutting me on this. I believe in you.

Once your find your comfort, you might even find other items of joy that are being gatekept from you like SmartTube.

Re: Nvidia's 10-year effort to make the Shield TV the most updated Android device

#87
post #15

Shield TV + extra storage + HDHomeRun tuner is still a great device for getting OTA TV. The only downside is that more recent versions use the Google Android TV launcher which is filled with a garbage truck full of ads, often for things I would never want to watch (horror movies? Nope!). Yes you can replace the launcher, but that's a pain. Would love to pay more for a device that has updated codec support, no ads or…

If plex was smart they’d sell a little box of their own and ditch all this faux-social media nonsense they’re slowly implementing. I do not care at all what my friends are watching. Not one bit. Just make it connect to servers. People are happy to pay for it clearly. How many beelinks have been sold just to run Jellyfin/Plex? I’d gladly buy a plex box for $100 - talk about a great Christmas present for friends and fa…

Boxee tried to do both the box (which was literally called "Box") and the social media, and now it's dead.

Re: Nvidia's 10-year effort to make the Shield TV the most updated Android device

#88
post #2

Now if only they would release an updated one.

I'd love to buy a newer, better streaming box than the several I already have but after spending quite a bit of time investigating, the state of Android TV-based streaming boxes & sticks is awful. That's one reason NVidia's Shield (Tegra X1 SoC) is still well-regarded despite being a circa 2015 design (the 2019 rev was just a cost reduce/bug fix with the same performance).

Beyond that your choices are to either stick with the same mainstream Google/Amazon/WalMart boxes which are locked down and based on 5+ year-old SoC designs or go with second-tier boxes from Asian vendors on AliExpress/Amazon/eBay, all of which have some different combination of significant compromises:

* Don't work with certain DRM, streaming services or codecs

* Has unreliable manufacturer support (certain firmware works with some DRM/services, next rev fixes one but breaks another)

And even those are built on old hardware designs because there's been no significant advancement in set-top SoC performance for over 5 years. There are only a handful of set-top SoC makers (MediaTek, Amlogic, Rockchip, etc) and while they do occasionally introduce new chips, they mostly only update the video decoding block to support newer codec levels or DRM revisions while keeping the same ancient ARM CPU/GPU cores (or different cores with the same class of 2015-2018 performance).

A good example is the Ugoos AM6B Plus box someone in this thread mentioned as an option for certain use cases. It's been verified to decode DV7 with FEL BUT only works well with local files, not streaming services. And the Amlogic 922x SoC in that box is 5+ year-old tech (I have the same chip in an Amazon Fire TV Stick 4k Max (2nd gen)). The hardware performance of these boxes has been essentially frozen in time due to a 'perfect storm' of factors:

* Most consumers want the cheapest box they can get which plays the main streaming platforms (NetFlix, Amazon, Apple, Disney+, etc). As long as they get a picture of minimally acceptable quality, they don't know or care if the hardware/firmware/drivers properly support the better Dolbyvision levels or adds the enhancement layer or supports ICtCp color space, 12-bit tunneling through RGB or if it handles Source-Based Tone Mapping (SBTM) correctly. They also don't care about playing locally hosted files smoothly or horrendous latency in the Wifi/Ethernet driver stack that nerfs local game streaming.

* DRM is a shit show. The big Hollywood studios require streaming platforms to use specific encryption. So the streaming platform apps will only playback streams on SoCs which have been officially certified (or they nerf the stream to 720p). The certification process is onerous, costly and time-consuming for SoC makers.

* SoC makers, having run the certification gauntlet a couple times now, would like to do it again, approximately... never. On top of that mess, developing and maintaining firmware for their decoding block which properly supports the constantly evolving landscape of divergent codec levels, enhancement layers, color spaces, tone mapping, etc is hard, expensive and requires deep expertise across multiple domains. They just want to sell trays of cheap SoCs and see all the rest as a bottomless money pit eating their slim margins.

NVidia did all this with the Shield and it's grandfathered in on the DRM and they've done a decent job supporting some more recent codecs, levels and layers where they can. But the Tegra X1 platform is 10+ years old now - yet it's still slightly more performant than any other DRM-certified SoC to this day, which just shows what a mess this is.

Which is insanely frustrating if you understand technology platforms, care about actually seeing the full quality modern tech can deliver and would like to do so on a non-ancient hardware platform capable of other trivial things like locally streaming files with actual throughput >100mbps or streaming games with non-glacial latency. But that's just table stakes because the things which could be done with more modern hardware are super-interesting, like AI-based upscaling, frame gen, removing compression artifacts, reformatting content, on-device gaming, etc.

But using standard small form-factor PC/GPU hardware is a non-starter because of DRM certification. So... it would be great if NVidia would make a new Shield based on the new Tegra. But that's a huge new effort and, sadly, NVidia would crazy to divert resources or wafers from the AI-bubble cash printer to anything else - so I highly doubt it's going to happen.

Re: Nvidia's 10-year effort to make the Shield TV the most updated Android device

#89
post #15

Shield TV + extra storage + HDHomeRun tuner is still a great device for getting OTA TV. The only downside is that more recent versions use the Google Android TV launcher which is filled with a garbage truck full of ads, often for things I would never want to watch (horror movies? Nope!). Yes you can replace the launcher, but that's a pain. Would love to pay more for a device that has updated codec support, no ads or…

If plex was smart they’d sell a little box of their own and ditch all this faux-social media nonsense they’re slowly implementing. I do not care at all what my friends are watching. Not one bit. Just make it connect to servers. People are happy to pay for it clearly. How many beelinks have been sold just to run Jellyfin/Plex? I’d gladly buy a plex box for $100 - talk about a great Christmas present for friends and fa…

Free momentum with a name like PlexBox, too.

Re: Nvidia's 10-year effort to make the Shield TV the most updated Android device

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If plex was smart they’d sell a little box of their own and ditch all this faux-social media nonsense they’re slowly implementing. I do not care at all what my friends are watching. Not one bit. Just make it connect to servers. People are happy to pay for it clearly. How many beelinks have been sold just to run Jellyfin/Plex? I’d gladly buy a plex box for $100 - talk about a great Christmas present for friends and fa…

Free momentum with a name like PlexBox, too.

I get I have no research or anything to back this up and maybe it’s a terrible idea ultimately, but based on the number of low tech literacy people I know personally who are either running their own Plex servers or attaching to others, an even more turnkey simple piece of hardware seems like something that could do reasonably well.
Post reply on HN