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Automatic Programming

antirez.com

81–90 of 257 posts

Re: Automatic Programming

#81
A reminder that that your LLM output isn't your intellectual property no matter how much effort you feel went into its prompting.

Copyright protects human creations and the US Copyright Office has made it clear that AI output cannot be copyrighted without significant creative alterations from humans of the output after it is generated.

Re: Automatic Programming

#82
I prefer "LLM-assisted programming" as it captures the value/responsibilty boundary pretty exactly. I think it was coined by simonw here, but unfortuantely "vibe coding" become all encompassing instead of proper software engineers using "LLM-assistant" to properly distinguish themselves from vibe bros with very shallow knowledge.

Re: Automatic Programming

#83
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are so adamant about this, why don't you release all your own code in the public domain? Aren't you gatekeeping knowledge too?

I agree with GP, and so, yes, I release everything I do — code and the hundreds of thousands of painstakingly researched, drafted, deeply thought through words of writing that I do — using a public domain equivalent license (to ensure it's as free as possible), the zero clause BSD.

Is there a link?

Re: Automatic Programming

#84
In the 1950s/1960s, the term "automatic programming" referred to compiler construction: instead of writing assembler code by hand, a FORula TRANslator (FORTRAN) could "magically" turn a mathematical formula into code "by itself".

"4GL" was a phase in the 1980s when very high level languages very provided by software companies, often integrating DB access and especially suited for particular domains. The idea was that one could focus more on the actual problem rather than having to write boilerplate needed to solving it.

LLMs permit to go from natural language specification to draft implementation. If one is lucky, it runs and produes the desired results right away; more often, one needs to revise the code base iteratively, again navigated by NL commands, to fix errors, to change the design based on reviewing the first shot at it, to add features etc.

Re: Automatic Programming

#86
post #33
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's possible to separate any open source contribution from the ones that came before it, as we're all standing on the shoulders of giants. Every developer learns from their predecessors and adapts patterns and code from existing projects.

Exactly that. And all the books about, for instance, operating systems, totally based on the work of others: their ideas where collected and documented, the exact algorithms, and so forth. All the human culture worked this way. Moreover there is a strong pattern of the most prolific / known open source developers being NOT against the fact that their code was used for training: they can't talk for everybody but it is…

> their ideas where collected and documented

Yeah, documented *and credited*. I'm not against the idea of disseminating knowledge, and even with my misgivings about LLMs, I wouldn't have said anything if this blog post was simply "LLMs are really useful".

My comment was in response to you essentially saying "all the criticisms of LLMs aren't real, and you should be uncompromisingly proud about using them".

> Moreover there is a strong pattern of the most prolific / known open source developers being NOT against the fact that their code was used for training

I think it's easy to get "echo-chambered" by who you follow online with this, my experience has been the opposite, i don't think it's clear what the reality is.

Re: Automatic Programming

#87
post #76
post #61

> I'm a programmer, and I use automatic programming. The code I generate in this way is mine. My code, my output, my production. I, and you, can be proud. I disagree. The code you wrote is a collaboration with the model you used. To frame it this way, you are taking credit for the work the model did on your behalf. There is a difference between I wrote this code entirely by myself and I wrote the code with a partner.…

Also it's not only the work of "the model" it's the work of human beings the model is trained on, often illegally.

Copyright infringement is a tort. “Illegal” is almost always used to refer to breaking of criminal law.

This seems like intentionally conflating them to imply that appropriating code for model training is a criminal offense, when, even in the most anti-AI, pro-IP view, it is plainly not.

Re: Automatic Programming

#88
post #61

> I'm a programmer, and I use automatic programming. The code I generate in this way is mine. My code, my output, my production. I, and you, can be proud. I disagree. The code you wrote is a collaboration with the model you used. To frame it this way, you are taking credit for the work the model did on your behalf. There is a difference between I wrote this code entirely by myself and I wrote the code with a partner.…

Prompting the AI is indeed “do[ing] it yourself”. There’s nobody else here, and this code is original and never existed before, and would not exist here and now if I hadn’t prompted this machine.

Re: Automatic Programming

#89
post #79

I have 30+ years of industry experience and I've been leaning heavily into spec driven development at work and it is a game changer. I love programming and now I get to program at one level higher: the spec. I spend hours on a spec, working with Claude Code to first generate and iterate on all the requirements, going over the requirements using self-reviews in Claude first using Opus 4.5 and then CoPilot using GPT-5.…

My experience is that such one-shotted projects never survive the collision with reality. Even with extremely detailed specs, the end result will not be what people had in mind, because human minds cannot fully anticipate the complexity of software, and all the edge cases it needs to handle. "Oh, I didn't think that this scheduled alarm is super annoying, I'd actually expect this other alarm to supersede it. It's gre…

I think there's a difference between people getting a system a d realising it isn't actually what they wanted and "never survive collision with reality".

They survive by being modified and I don't think that invalidates the process that got them in front of people faster than would otherwise have been possible.

This isn't a defence of waterfall though. It's really about increasing the pace of agile and the size of the loop that is possible.

Re: Automatic Programming

#90

I have 30+ years of industry experience and I've been leaning heavily into spec driven development at work and it is a game changer. I love programming and now I get to program at one level higher: the spec. I spend hours on a spec, working with Claude Code to first generate and iterate on all the requirements, going over the requirements using self-reviews in Claude first using Opus 4.5 and then CoPilot using GPT-5.…

Perhaps a better way than to view them as alternative choices is to view them as alternative modes of working, between which it is sometimes helpful to switch?

We know old-style classic waterfall lacks flexibility and agile lacks planning, but I don't see a reason why not to switch back and forth multiple times in the same project.

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