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Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

tech.lgbt

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Re: Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

#81

Post by orwin »

simonw wrote: post #65
orwin wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, didn't it use Servo crates? I don't think you can say 'from scratch' if 60% of the actual work is from an external lib. If I install an Arch Linux, I don't say I 'installed Linux from scratch'.

It used cssparser and html5ever from the Servo project, and it used the Taffy library for flexbox and CSS grid layout algorithms which isn't officially part of Servo but is used by Servo. I'd estimate that's a lot less than 60% of the "actual work" though.

My bad, I was misinformed, thanks for correcting me, I thought it used the renderer, not just the parser. Thats honestly way better than what I thought.

Re: Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

#82

Post by palata »

armchairhacker wrote: post #30

It’s not a working or complete implementation, but…

Well that is an interesting idea and proof of concept. I agree that the post is not the best I have seen from Cloudflare, and it shouldn't suggest that the code is production ready, but it is an interesting use-case.

Re: Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

#86

Post by btown »

PUSH_AX wrote: post #64
usefulposter wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of Cloudflare's OAuth library for Workers. >Claude's output was thoroughly reviewed by Cloudflare engineers with careful attention paid to security >To emphasize, this is not "vibe coded". >Every line was thoroughly reviewed and cross-referenced with relevant RFCs, by security experts with previous experience with those RFCs. ...Some time later... https://github.com/advisories/GHSA-4pc9-x2fx-p7vj

What is the learning here? There were humans involved in every step. Things built with security in mind are not invulnerable, human written or otherwise.

Taking a best-faith approach here, I think it's indicative of a broader issue, which is that code reviewers can easily get "tunnel vision" where the focus shifts to reviewing each line of code, rather than necessarily cross-referencing against both small details and highly-salient "gotchas" of the specification/story/RFC, and ensuring that those details are not missing from the code.

This applies whether the code is written is by a human or AI, and also whether the code is reviewed by a human or AI.

Is a Github Copilot auto-reviewer going to click two levels deep into the Slack links that are provided as a motivating reference in the user story that led to the PR that's being reviewed? Or read relevant RFCs? (And does it even have permission to do all this?)

And would you even do this, as the code reviewer? Or will you just make sure the code makes sense, is maintainable, and doesn't break the architecture?

This all leads to a conclusion that software engineering isn't getting replaced by AI any time soon. Someone needs to be there to figure out what context is relevant when things go wrong, because they inevitably will.

Re: Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

#88

Post by heliumtera »

embedding-shape wrote: post #27
Arathorn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-rust-sdk/blob/main/CONT... is an example of engineering trying to make a comeback, on the Matrix side at least :)

As long as you take ownership, test your stuff and ensure it actually does what you claim it does, I don't mind if you use LLMs, a book or your dog. I'm mostly concerned that something we used to see as a part of basic "software engineering" (verify that what you build is actually doing what you think it is) has suddenly made a very quick exit from the scene, in chase of outputting more LOC which is completely backwa…

If you take ownership of the code you submit, them it does not matter if it was inspired by AI, you are responsible from now on and you will be criticized, possibly you will be expected to maintain as well.

Vibing is incompatible with engineering and this practice is disgusting and NOT acceptable.

Re: Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

#89

Post by palata »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #83
palata wrote: post #78

[flagged]

> They start by saying they "wanted to see if it was possible" That's a generous read. From the actual article: > We wanted to see if we could eliminate that tax entirely. Spoiler: We could.

Sure it's a bad post. But the guy did not make a nazi salute at a meeting...

Re: Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

#90

Post by computerfriend »

palata wrote: post #78

[flagged]

I also can't help but feel bad for the author. However, when the first line of the README is

> A production-grade Matrix homeserver

this is engineering malpractice. It is also unethical to present the work of an LLM as your own.

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