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Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

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Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#81

Post by ottah »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #34
mattcantstop wrote: post #14

I think Denver (I live here) is an example of our horrible zoning. We have entirely focused our cities (especially Denver and RTD (Regional Transportation District)) around people commuting in for work. This is one of the main principles of BAD design, where you create an entire area around close to a single use (offices). That creates a very fragile city. This "single use" zoning that the US proliferated makes us re…

I also live in Denver. The biggest problem with downtown isn't zoning (though that may be a part), it's the homeless people. Who's going to want to go hang out on 16th when there's a dude asking you for money on every street corner? I don't know what the solution is, but it seems clear to me that revitalizing downtown starts with removing the "I'm going to have to deal with vagrants" factor.

Homelessness is a choice that society has made. We have enough excess that we can feed and house these people. People are a lot less scary when they have some measure of security.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#82

Post by ottah »

mattcantstop wrote: post #14

I think Denver (I live here) is an example of our horrible zoning. We have entirely focused our cities (especially Denver and RTD (Regional Transportation District)) around people commuting in for work. This is one of the main principles of BAD design, where you create an entire area around close to a single use (offices). That creates a very fragile city. This "single use" zoning that the US proliferated makes us re…

Is it actually badly zoned? There's also a lot of apartment buildings and first floor retail in downtown Denver. I do agree though, it's a concrete jungle, we really need more natural environments to feel human.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#83

Post by binary132 »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #34
mattcantstop wrote: post #14

I think Denver (I live here) is an example of our horrible zoning. We have entirely focused our cities (especially Denver and RTD (Regional Transportation District)) around people commuting in for work. This is one of the main principles of BAD design, where you create an entire area around close to a single use (offices). That creates a very fragile city. This "single use" zoning that the US proliferated makes us re…

I also live in Denver. The biggest problem with downtown isn't zoning (though that may be a part), it's the homeless people. Who's going to want to go hang out on 16th when there's a dude asking you for money on every street corner? I don't know what the solution is, but it seems clear to me that revitalizing downtown starts with removing the "I'm going to have to deal with vagrants" factor.

Last time I went to Denver I actually got chased.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#84

Post by renewiltord »

burkaman wrote: post #72
renewiltord wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, many DSA chapters follow the same playbook so the Denver DSA is fairly representative of the DSA, which is the largest socialist organization in the US. So either the DSA is not socialist, not representative of American socialists, or is representative and American socialists are a device to stop affordable housing and create parks. Which proposition or conclusion above do you disagree with and why?

I don't really know anything about the DSA so I can't agree or disagree with any of this. I guess I misread your comment, I interpreted it as "Based on the events described in this thread, American socialism's purpose is ...". It seems like your statement is actually based on a very broad context of the DSA's history and activities, which are not common knowledge, so it would have been nice to include some of that if…

I am certainly happy to amend it to "The DSA's primary purpose in America in the last twenty years is to oppose affordable housing and convert the sites of such housing to parks".

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#85

Post by quickthrowman »

mothballed wrote: post #10
mullen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plumbing systems in commercial buildings are not big enough to handle residents usage. Residents use more water and the outbound sewage systems need to be larger.

There's already enough plumbing in there for a whole office to shit when they get to the office. History favors the bold, and code inspectors blabbering about "written in blood" don't see all the homeless people they kill via reduced access to housing. I've seen plenty of artist collectives that manage it; on paper they are office/industrial but actually everyone lives there. Every once in awhile one burns down but t…

> There's already enough plumbing in there for a whole office to shit when they get to the office.

A 20,000 sq ft office tower floor will usually have a single set of restrooms and a couple of kitchen sinks, maybe a dishwasher, plus a couple 6-gallon or instahot water heaters. If you subdivide that floor into a dozen units, that’s 12 showers, 12 washers, 12 dishwashers, 12 toilets, 24 sinks, and 12 water heaters.

The riser and drain pipes aren’t big enough to handle residential needs.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#86

Post by quickthrowman »

vel0city wrote: post #12
mothballed wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's already enough plumbing in there for a whole office to shit when they get to the office. History favors the bold, and code inspectors blabbering about "written in blood" don't see all the homeless people they kill via reduced access to housing. I've seen plenty of artist collectives that manage it; on paper they are office/industrial but actually everyone lives there. Every once in awhile one burns down but t…

For a lot of the office buildings I've been in, there aren't that many toilets per floor. Its also different when you've got some toilets that are often unused compared to people running laundry, cooking, bathing, etc. Very different demands on the plumbing system. You also then had everything pretty much isolated to two rooms for an entire floor meanwhile now every unit is going to have a separate kitchen, a bathroo…

> And you're going to need a good bit of engineering studies done before you start cutting that many holes in the floor.

You can Swiss-cheese a pan and deck concrete floor with core-drilled holes, the important thing is GPDR scanning before coring to avoid the pre- or post-tension cables embedded in the concrete.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#87

Post by [deleted] »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #51
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also live in Denver. The biggest problem with downtown isn't zoning (though that may be a part), it's the homeless people. Who's going to want to go hang out on 16th when there's a dude asking you for money on every street corner? I don't know what the solution is, but it seems clear to me that revitalizing downtown starts with removing the "I'm going to have to deal with vagrants" factor.

Solution, 1) abundance of cheap housing. 2) effective mental health treatment with mandatory attendance when necessary. Of course this utopia would attract folks from other areas, so can’t be solved only locally. Needs national support.

[deleted]

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#88

Post by jmye »

mattcantstop wrote: post #14

I think Denver (I live here) is an example of our horrible zoning. We have entirely focused our cities (especially Denver and RTD (Regional Transportation District)) around people commuting in for work. This is one of the main principles of BAD design, where you create an entire area around close to a single use (offices). That creates a very fragile city. This "single use" zoning that the US proliferated makes us re…

> There were tons of families with kids playing in the park, people riding bikes for transportation along the park bike paths, adults playing ping pong on outdoor tables together. It was wonderful. It made me rethink what a city can look like.

Sure sounds like literally every major park in the city.

The rest of your comment certainly describes downtown/RINO, but does not, at all, describe anything even half a mile away from downtown.

I’m slightly confused by your descriptions. I’m more confused by how you think Denver ought to build transit that goes from the suburbs to other suburbs, or if you think we ought to just raze the whole thing? I’m not sure that would get voter support.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#89

Post by pixelatedindex »

renewiltord wrote: post #19
mattcantstop wrote: post #14

I think Denver (I live here) is an example of our horrible zoning. We have entirely focused our cities (especially Denver and RTD (Regional Transportation District)) around people commuting in for work. This is one of the main principles of BAD design, where you create an entire area around close to a single use (offices). That creates a very fragile city. This "single use" zoning that the US proliferated makes us re…

What size of home would you be willing to raise your children in? The average 3 br is 1000 sq. ft. in Berlin. US norms are for much larger homes.

How much space do you really need to raise a child? I’m genuinely curious because Americans act like you need a mansion to raise kids.

A 3 bed with 1K sq ft still gives you like a 10x10 room - more than enough space for a crib and a queen bed. And you have two other bedrooms to spare. As they get older and need space to run around and stuff, there’s no shortage of parks / trails / fields.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#90

Post by pixelatedindex »

renewiltord wrote: post #38
fwip wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up (as the oldest of 5 siblings) in a split-level home about 1200 sqft. It was fine, we just shared bedrooms. Based only on anecdotal evidence, we grew up closer than other families I knew where each kid has their own bed and bathroom.

So did I. But I think the median American acts to not raise their child like that.

Well it’s time to rethink that then. Necessity is the mother of all invention, and at one point it’ll be a necessity to downsize if you want an affordable home.
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