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The world of Japanese snack bars

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Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#81

Post by stevenhuang »

dfajgljsldkjag wrote: post #80
stevenhuang wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you so confident you understand these places when you're not Japanese and had to look up the wiki page for it?

I know exactly what I'm talking about, but I linked a trustworthy source so that it's not just "I told you so". But if that's what you want: I'm Japanese and I understand this issue perfectly and you don't. It's exactly as I said it is. There I told you so. So go take a hike.

Comparing snack bars to hostess bars in the exploitive industry sense is pretty funny but you do you.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#82

Post by numpad0 »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #15
wolvoleo wrote: post #2

Cool, in Holland snack bars are not homely at all. Some have just little cubbyholes in the wall where you insert a coin and take a croquette from behind a little window (we like buying stuff from behind windows I guess, lol). And if there is staff it's usually a big grumpy guy. And the food is really greasy. It's not a place you go for fun. It's more for quick fix food (though some of it is delicious though bad for y…

> tattoos are frowned upon My understanding is that this isn't about tattoos per se, but that historically only yakuza would have them. So it's more about not wanting to deal with criminals than not liking tattoos in and of themselves.

The intention of no-tattoos policy is to be able to decline services without mentioning yakuza as a class, so to avoid discrimination lawsuits. But part time bathhouse shift managers might not be aware of that, and/or know that rules need to be enforced equally on all customers to be not outright discriminatory, and so mileages vary.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#83

Post by dismalaf »

PlatoIsADisease wrote: post #66
dismalaf wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act like $100k/year isn't still well above average. Hell it's above what SWEs make in any country that's not the USA. But pertaining to this article, the key to tiny Japanese restaurants such as these snack bars is that their startup costs are extremely low, rents are low and since they're tiny, they don't need staff so they keep all the profit. Probably good enough to make an average living without too many worr…

100k is a pay cut for me. Especially the risk and amount of work involved. I program a w2 job and can make 1.5x that without difficulty. I program for my own company and make 2-20x more. I don't think the average person could handle the risk, difficulty of labor, and knowledge to run a successful restaurant that makes 100k/yr.

So you're just bragging now? Do you even have a point? Cool that you make so much, but for most people in most of the world, $100k is a lot.

> I don't think the average person could handle the risk, difficulty of labor, and knowledge to run a successful restaurant that makes 100k/yr.

Margins are so low in restaurants in North America because of absurd regulations, zoning, rent, etc... Literally 90% of the costs are bullshit.

That's why it's difficult. You need a ton of revenue to deal with the bullshit, which means large upfront investment, staff, expensive rent, etc... You're doing more than most CEOs. Take away all the bullshit and it's a pretty straightforward business that anyone can do: you sell food and drinks.

In Japan or much of the EU, to make $100k you really only need to sell $150-200k. No staff, tiny footprint, minimal regulations, cheap rent or you own it. That's how restaurants can survive there with like 10 guests per night.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#84

Post by csa »

dfajgljsldkjag wrote: post #70

I find it unfortunate that this article is glorifying the quite exploitative industry of hostess bars in Japan. From Wikipedia: > A "snack bar" (スナックバー, sunakku bā), "snack" for short, refers to a kind of hostess bar. It is an alcohol-serving bar that employs female staff to serve and flirt with male customers. It is the kind of place where lonely men pay money to talk to hostesses, and while the "mama" runs the show…

> I find it unfortunate that this article is glorifying the quite exploitative industry of hostess bars in Japan. From Wikipedia:

> > A "snack bar" (スナックバー, sunakku bā), "snack" for short, refers to a kind of hostess bar. It is an alcohol-serving bar that employs female staff to serve and flirt with male customers.

My friend, quoting Wikipedia on a topic as culture-specific as スナック is just flat out irresponsible.

スナック run the whole gamut from friendly place to hang out, to a place lonely men flirt with hostesses, to thinly-veiled fronts for prostitution (and possibly human trafficking), with most leaning much more in the vanilla direction. While they aren’t always easy to tell apart from each other from the outside looking, スナック and キャバクラ or クラブ (or whatever they are calling them at a given time and in a given place) are very different experiences with different expectations.

The bar-going locals pretty much all know the rules and expectations of each スナック. If they don’t know about a specific place, they can usually find out quickly.

The post-ww2 history of スナック (and other local drinking establishments) is fascinating if you can get people to talk to you about it. It definitely has been a way for various types of less-privileged folks (e.g., widows, low education, low social class, etc.) to earn money, some times multiples of what their customers earn. [side note: this isn’t actually as great as it sounds sometimes, as the bar scene has lower social status than a salaryman job, even if the bar owner makes 3-10x what the salarymen make).

To close, the one specific subset of スナック that you refer to definitely exists, but it doesn’t define the whole dynamic genre.

Source: Me. Lived in Japan a while. Dated a スナック mama-san (no money was involved) after I was taken to her place by a friend of mine who was her alcohol distributor. Learned a lot from her.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#85

Post by csa »

dfajgljsldkjag wrote: post #80
stevenhuang wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you so confident you understand these places when you're not Japanese and had to look up the wiki page for it?

I know exactly what I'm talking about, but I linked a trustworthy source so that it's not just "I told you so". But if that's what you want: I'm Japanese and I understand this issue perfectly and you don't. It's exactly as I said it is. There I told you so. So go take a hike.

> I'm Japanese and I understand this issue perfectly and you don't.

Um, I'm calling shenanigans on this one. You have a viewpoint that seems more like negatively-biased indirect knowledge of this part of Japanese culture.

Were you born in Japan?

Have you lived there as an adult?

Have you frequented スナック and other types of hostess bars? If so, how did you discover them and with whom?

If you’re older, how has the スナック scene changed over your lifetime?

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#86

Post by sellmesoap »

Rodeoclash wrote: post #61
scottyah wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It truly is, I recently read a great article about the coffee shops being run out of a room in people's homes- I would love to sell coffee out of my garage for a few hours before work.

Compared to Australia where the government attempts to plan and control every aspect of commercial business, Japan's laws are a real breath of fresh air. Melbourne's had laws so strict that they've done a bang up job of ruining the local live music scene. Minimum numbers of bouncers, licenses that don't extend past midnight. Our big dance parties have been shifting the start times earlier and earlier because of absur…

I always liken this to "treat people like children and they'll meet your expectations"

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#87

Post by LM358 »

gyomu wrote: post #47
NalNezumi wrote: post #26

My British friend that lived in Kyoto had his favorite snac bar. He was accepted as a local and even had a whiskey bottle saved for him (privilege for the regulars!) Another snac bar that he brought me to had an interesting story. The snac bar was in an apartment complex (due to Japan's funny zoning laws) at the nightlife district, could maybe fit 5-6 max. The place was filled with blues and jazz LPs! When we went th…

> Oddly only the French did understand the sentiment French culture is a rare culture where shop owners won't be afraid to tell off/talk back at customers that don't show a basic level of politeness. You, as a customer, are in the shopkeeper's "home", so to speak, and you should behave accordingly. Someone who doesn't use the customary "bonjour/merci/au revoir" is likely to be met with some response like "tout d'abor…

>as a kid it shocked me that a customer in the US could get away with "I'll have a coke" as their only utterance to a waiter - no hello, please, thank you.

As a Norwegian who's been visiting the US for quite a few times now (as we speak), I've always appreciated the "hello, please, thank you", but what really gets me are the incessant "how are you"s.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#88

Post by defen »

dfxm12 wrote: post #57
defen wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> French culture is a rare culture where shop owners won't be afraid to tell off/talk back at customers that don't show a basic level of politeness. My favorite French shop anecdote (I'm American): Went to a bakery in Paris. Tried to order "Un croissant, s'il vous plaît". Shopkeeper responded (in very lightly accented English) with "I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying". I wasn't mad or offended, in fact…

Did you ever get your croissant in that shop?

I did! Had to ask for it in English though.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#89

Post by antfarm »

LM358 wrote: post #87
gyomu wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oddly only the French did understand the sentiment French culture is a rare culture where shop owners won't be afraid to tell off/talk back at customers that don't show a basic level of politeness. You, as a customer, are in the shopkeeper's "home", so to speak, and you should behave accordingly. Someone who doesn't use the customary "bonjour/merci/au revoir" is likely to be met with some response like "tout d'abor…

>as a kid it shocked me that a customer in the US could get away with "I'll have a coke" as their only utterance to a waiter - no hello, please, thank you. As a Norwegian who's been visiting the US for quite a few times now (as we speak), I've always appreciated the "hello, please, thank you", but what really gets me are the incessant "how are you"s.

I know what you mean. I once worked at a Berlin games company with many international and US colleagues. Even after three years, I still couldn't figure out why even people I barely knew greeted me with an enthusiastic "Hey [Name]! How are you?". It always felt like a very awkward handshake.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#90

Post by wink »

antfarm wrote: post #89
LM358 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>as a kid it shocked me that a customer in the US could get away with "I'll have a coke" as their only utterance to a waiter - no hello, please, thank you. As a Norwegian who's been visiting the US for quite a few times now (as we speak), I've always appreciated the "hello, please, thank you", but what really gets me are the incessant "how are you"s.

I know what you mean. I once worked at a Berlin games company with many international and US colleagues. Even after three years, I still couldn't figure out why even people I barely knew greeted me with an enthusiastic "Hey [Name]! How are you?". It always felt like a very awkward handshake.

The first time that happened to me I went on a small rant about some minor health issues and the state of the world in general and that settled the conversation with an overseas colleague.

It was later that I found out that "how are you" is a perfectly valid answer to "how are you" and it still boggles my mind 20 years later.

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