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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#81

Post by jacquesm »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #67
ericd wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this is accurate, Chinese firms are increasingly moving up the quality chain. You might want to look at some of the reviews of Xiaomi’s recently launched car. Also, Tesla Shanghai is one of their best factories, much better quality scores than Fremont iirc. Having a totally local, integrated supply chain pays dividends in a lot of ways, as does leading in production volume. Tim Cook also gave that inter…

it took Japan about 25 years of very directed industrial strategy to take the "made in Japan" label from indicating junk to the average American, to indicating a premium/reliable product. China might get there in even less than 25 years but you'll probably still find people holding onto old "chinesium" beliefs long after they should

Japan never was a threat during that time to countries around it. China is very much a threat to other countries around it and I would feel pretty bad about materially financing yet another war.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#82

Post by jjmarr »

kulahan wrote: post #47
qiqitori wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing "underequipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers" on HN. What kind of stuff is missing? This is not a loaded question, I only drive a couple times a month, and the vehicle I'm driving is an older Prius, so I probably lack imagination. EVs are supposed to be technologically pretty simple, most of an EV's value being in the battery packs. I've been thinking about upgrading, perhaps to a Niss…

In terms of features I see on high end cars… (no clue if these are available in Chinese cars, just to help you get an idea of what exists) 1. Backup camera with lines that move as you turn the wheel 2. Camera setup that lets you see how close you are to curbs, other cars, etc. from a plethora of unexpected angles (you can get a top-down view of your car! Pretty cool.) 3. Automatic parking when parallel parking 4. “Re…

I have 1 and 8 on my cheap RAV4 from 7 years ago. Heated seats too.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#83

Post by eru »

jacquesm wrote: post #71
dottjt wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is paranoia, but one fear I have for high-tech Chinese products is that if a world war were to start with China, that they'd have the ability to remotely disable these kinds of products.

After the Israeli attack using pagers I think this is no longer paranoid at all. The same goes for Chinese built cloud connected hardware, especially if it is grid connected, contains heater elements or batteries. Inverters, solar panels, vehicles, 3D printers, the list is endless and all of these are either potential fire starters or ways to destabilize the grid. Used maliciously the potential for misery is pretty l…

> The same goes for Chinese built cloud connected hardware, [...]

It goes even more for American built or American influenced hardware.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#84

Post by cortesoft »

KnuthIsGod wrote: post #40

Global sales of Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and BMW brand ( BMW Group sales increased marginally, but includes) have all declined. The end is in sight for German cars as Chinese made electric cars take over. I have had several German cars. Never again ! Sticking to Japanese and probably Chinese cars in the future. German cars were decent once. Now they are notorious for poor long term reliability.

Are all German cars the same? Is there a reason they all declined together, in your opinion?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#85

Post by astrojams »

sklargh wrote: post #25
qiqitori wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing "underequipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers" on HN. What kind of stuff is missing? This is not a loaded question, I only drive a couple times a month, and the vehicle I'm driving is an older Prius, so I probably lack imagination. EVs are supposed to be technologically pretty simple, most of an EV's value being in the battery packs. I've been thinking about upgrading, perhaps to a Niss…

I think a few things. 1. They do not have robust self-driving capability. At this level of expense I expect hands-free major highway driving. 2. They’ve removed a lot of physical buttons that improve quality of life, the level of technology in the cabin is simply overwhelming. 3. They’ve done a great job with the driving experience of the EVs but they have poor range relative to the competition.

I have a 2022 Porsche 911. It has a lot of physical controls for things in the cabin like climate control, suspension settings, cruise control, dashboard view, and audio. The car also has an auto steer and cruise control option which will accelerate and brake for you while also keeping the car in the lane. It can go from a stop to whatever speed you set it to. It’s great for traffic on the highway. That’s not too shabby for a 2022 non EV car. Current model Mercedes have level 4 driving automation where you can take your eyes off the road. I don’t think Tesla even has this level of driving automation yet.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#86

Post by hnburnsy »

King-Aaron wrote: post #23
nxm wrote: post #5

The key part is electrified and not pure electric.

On this note: It was recently reported that Electrified vehicles in general outsold conventional ICE powered vehicles in Australia, claiming it has reached a 'tipping point' with consumers: https://www.drive.com.au/news/electrified-vehicles-have-offi...

Consumers don't realize they are getting the worst of both worlds with added weight, complexity, repairs, inefficiency, and costs along with potential reliability (ex-Toyota) Not to mention studies that show PHEV owners frequently don't plug in.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#87

Post by light_hue_1 »

appplication wrote: post #10
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

China may become the superpower on volume but I would be surprised if the upper quartile (by price) of western buyers were interested in Chinese vehicles. Too much quality issues across the board on Chinese made products, unless you have a trusted non-Chinese company with stringent quality control (e.g. Apple model). I’m sure they can handily win the lower end of the market though. And yes I’m aware many western manu…

Nothing to do with quality. It's all image.

When Americans discover again how crappy their cars are compared to what's available elsewhere, like we did with Japan, there will be a reckoning once more. And again American cars will become the laughing stock they really are.

In the meantime, this incredibly short sighted protectionism will end just like the last round did. Further hollowing out our industrial base and permanently giving away large parts of a massive market.

And I'm sure all of the people involved in this insanity will want a bailout too.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#88

Post by wslh »

dottjt wrote: post #63
jacquesm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind paying more for a European product, and as for the 'poor long term reliability': we don't know what the long term reliability of Chinese vehicles is yet. Not that it really matters, my car is 27 years old this year and I won't be getting another one but that has to do with wanting a car that is doing what I want it to do rather than what it wants to do.

I don't know if this is paranoia, but one fear I have for high-tech Chinese products is that if a world war were to start with China, that they'd have the ability to remotely disable these kinds of products.

The reverse is clear for Chinese people. Do you remember when, in the early 2000s, the US sold a Boeing 767 intended for Chinese presidential use, and Chinese authorities later reported finding numerous hidden listening devices on board? There is a Chinese Wikipedia article about the incident [1], but no dedicated English one. More information in English can be found here [2].

[1] https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-cn/%E6%B1%9F%E6%BE%A4%E6%B0%91%E...

[2] https://www.flightglobal.com/chinese-vip-jet-was-bugged/4121...

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#89

Post by itsthecourier »

bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

great analysis

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#90

Post by tehjoker »

jacquesm wrote: post #71
dottjt wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is paranoia, but one fear I have for high-tech Chinese products is that if a world war were to start with China, that they'd have the ability to remotely disable these kinds of products.

After the Israeli attack using pagers I think this is no longer paranoid at all. The same goes for Chinese built cloud connected hardware, especially if it is grid connected, contains heater elements or batteries. Inverters, solar panels, vehicles, 3D printers, the list is endless and all of these are either potential fire starters or ways to destabilize the grid. Used maliciously the potential for misery is pretty l…

China is much less likely to attack civilians. Don't project america and israel's way of war onto others. I would imagine part of their strategy is to win hearts ad minds. America just kills and kills and kills and wonders why we arent loved.
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