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AI companies will fail. We can salvage something from the wreckage

theguardian.com

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Re: AI companies will fail. We can salvage something from the wreckage

#81

Post by pixl97 »

sodapopcan wrote: post #50
jongjong wrote: post #2

It's disappointing how so many people blame AI for our problems. I see this pattern over and over; people never blame the socio-economic system and blame technology instead. Technological improvement is the only thing which allows us to survive the social, cultural and moral decline that we've been experiencing. People blame tech because it allows the system to be highly inefficient and still hold together. But if pe…

Well it's kinda both. One step towards socio-economic change would be if everyone just stopped giving billionaires upwards of $200/month, and didn't have their companies give it to them on their behalf.

Any problem that is solved by "if everyone just" changed what they are doing is not solvable by everyone just changing what they are doing.

Re: AI companies will fail. We can salvage something from the wreckage

#82

Post by sodapopcan »

pixl97 wrote: post #81
sodapopcan wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's kinda both. One step towards socio-economic change would be if everyone just stopped giving billionaires upwards of $200/month, and didn't have their companies give it to them on their behalf.

Any problem that is solved by "if everyone just" changed what they are doing is not solvable by everyone just changing what they are doing.

Ya, no shit! Just like "we should just" solve the socio-economic problems as if they didn't go hand-in-hand (I realize I'm paraphrasing OP a bit).

Re: AI companies will fail. We can salvage something from the wreckage

#83

Post by hamdingers »

jsnell wrote: post #76
hamdingers wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Faking quotes like you're doing there is about as bad faith as it gets.

What do you mean "faking quotes?" Are you genuinely unfamiliar with the concept of paraphrase?

If you have an issue with my interpretation of their comment feel free to share, don't feign childlike naivety.

Re: AI companies will fail. We can salvage something from the wreckage

#84

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

"I'm a science-fiction writer - my job is to think of a dozen alternatives before breakfast."

The author should have a team of programmers trying to implement some of these alternatives

I'm confident "new method of collecting data, performing surveillance and providing ad services" would not be one of them

Programmers are generally not good sources of novel ideas

They tend to focus on copying ("implementing") the ideas of others

Today's "AI", designed by programmers, IMO (other opinions may differ), is an automated form of copying

Re: AI companies will fail. We can salvage something from the wreckage

#85

Post by judahmeek »

lostmsu wrote: post #77
happy_dog1 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we have to be careful when assuming that model capabilities will continue to grow at the same rate they have grown in recent years. It is very well-documented their growth in recent years has been accompanied by an exponential increase in the cost of building these models, see for example (of many examples) [1]. These costs include not just the cost of GPUs but also the cost for reinforcement learning from hu…

No, models significantly improved at the same cost. Last year's Claude 3.7 has since been beaten by GPT-OSS 120B that you can run locally and is much cheaper to train.

And GPT-OSS's architecture improvements aren't already incorporated in SotA models?

Re: AI companies will fail. We can salvage something from the wreckage

#86

Post by lostmsu »

judahmeek wrote: post #85
lostmsu wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, models significantly improved at the same cost. Last year's Claude 3.7 has since been beaten by GPT-OSS 120B that you can run locally and is much cheaper to train.

And GPT-OSS's architecture improvements aren't already incorporated in SotA models?

The point is, that contradicts the claim that lately the progress is only made by throwing more compute.

Re: AI companies will fail. We can salvage something from the wreckage

#87

Post by jongjong »

DetectDefect wrote: post #15
jongjong wrote: post #2

It's disappointing how so many people blame AI for our problems. I see this pattern over and over; people never blame the socio-economic system and blame technology instead. Technological improvement is the only thing which allows us to survive the social, cultural and moral decline that we've been experiencing. People blame tech because it allows the system to be highly inefficient and still hold together. But if pe…

It is pretty plain to see technology enables socio-economic disharmony, to say the least. While it may not be the "cause" it is certainly a potent accelerant.

Yes but we can't stop progress while scarcity is still causing suffering. I think that communication works long term, even with algorithm suppression. Insightful ideas tend to bubble up, especially during chaotic times.

Re: AI companies will fail. We can salvage something from the wreckage

#88

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #4

It’s funny reading this parallel world that some portion of people have constructed for themselves. It has been three years and these tools can do a considerable portion of my day to day work. Salvage the wreckage? Unfortunately I think that many people’s jobs are essentially in the “Coyote running off a cliff but not realizing it yet” phase or soon to be.

"It's funny reading this parallel world that some portion of people have constructed for themselves."

Funnily enough, there was a story today in the WSJ about "a parallel world some portion of people have constructed for themselves"

Why the Tech World Thinks the American Dream Is Dying

https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/why-the-tech-world-thinks-the-am...

Re: AI companies will fail. We can salvage something from the wreckage

#89

Post by beedeebeedee »

jongjong wrote: post #87
DetectDefect wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is pretty plain to see technology enables socio-economic disharmony, to say the least. While it may not be the "cause" it is certainly a potent accelerant.

Yes but we can't stop progress while scarcity is still causing suffering. I think that communication works long term, even with algorithm suppression. Insightful ideas tend to bubble up, especially during chaotic times.

At this point, scarcity is an artifact of our economy

Re: AI companies will fail. We can salvage something from the wreckage

#90

Post by judahmeek »

lostmsu wrote: post #86
judahmeek wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And GPT-OSS's architecture improvements aren't already incorporated in SotA models?

The point is, that contradicts the claim that lately the progress is only made by throwing more compute.

That wasn't the claim made.

The claim made was that improving SotA models has historically taken exponentially more compute.

The claim implies that improving SotA models takes more compute even while integrating technological advancements to make models more efficient.

Unless you think that such advancements have been historically ignored by the curators of SotA models?

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