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EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

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Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#81

Post by 0dayz »

iagooar wrote: post #41
oytis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most importantly, Europe needs more trading partners after having lost Russia and now losing the United States. Second, I am happy about German (I suspect it's similar in other EU countries) farmers largely supporting the far-right getting a taste of a world without protectionism and regulations. Finally, I hope for lower grocery prices, not only for myself, but also because it makes the whole social situation less e…

Fair trade yes. Unfair trade no. And Mercosur is COMPLETELY unfair to European farmers. It imposes higher standards - and thus costs - on European farmers, while allowing South American farmers to produce with lower quality and adding forbidden substances to grow crops faster - and cheaper.

And how does Asian countries curtail this?

Since we got trade deals when it comes to food with them, and they 100% do not have the same standard as European farmers.

And the EU won't check these inferior products for any problems?

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#82

Post by vemv »

At which point the "rest of the world" (everyone but the US) can just threaten Trump with making the US economically irrelevant?

That would seem a simple and peaceful solution to the Trump-inflicted bullying - stop messing around or we'll cease all commerce with you.

As I see it, just the bluff would suffice. Make the threat credible and the higher powers would remove Trump in a day or two.

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#83

Post by thrance »

mikaeluman wrote: post #51

The main issue as I see it is that we need food security in the EU. Especially high quality nutrious dense food like beef. And EU farmers are subject to a ridiculous number of regulations and costs. The thing is, these may very well be good for environmental reasons, but it doesn't work if we just start importing from countries that do the opposite.

If you want food security, beef is one of the worst options. It is extremely land-inefficient (not to mention very polluting as well).

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#84

Post by dlisboa »

3ple_alpha wrote: post #45

Removing tariffs on beef specifically is a serious mistake, there's no need to incentivise any more production of that. Other agricultural imports, like soy and coffee beans, are a huge boon to the EU on the other hand. If this results in cheaper coffee, everyone in my country, for one, will be ecstatic.

Soybeans have probably a worse impact on the environment than beef. Most of the deforestation in SA in the past couple of decades was for soybean farms.

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#85

Post by [deleted] »

realusername wrote: post #17
oytis wrote: post #3

I'm surprised Trump didn't threaten involved parties with tariffs or military action over that yet. As a European, very happy about that happening, for multiple reasons. It's a shame it took so long

Trump used this card already, he already imposed tariffs once so nobody cares about that threat anymore. That's the thing with tariffs, they only work once.

[deleted]

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#86

Post by nottorp »

embedding-shape wrote: post #77
onesandofgrain wrote: post #74

Cheaper coffee this must mean for europe.

And it's already pretty cheap, how much cheaper can it get? Usually you'd pay somewhere around 1-1.2 EUR for an espresso, 1.5-2.0 EUR for "fancier" coffees, at least here in Spain (depends a lot on exactly where though).

You never make your own coffee at home then?

Price of coffee as in the ingredient for making the espresso has about doubled since covid.

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#87

Post by eigenspace »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #68
eigenspace wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that we ideally shouldn't be incentivizing more beef production, the reality is that making a trade agreement (at least the European way) involves a lot of give-and-take, compromises, and concessions. Mercosur countries have a powerful beef industry which they're proud of, and their governments are interested in advancing that industry. Lowered beef tariffs were almost certainly one of their prerequisit…

We have to notice the blatant hypocrisy here: on the one hand we are told that the environment and net zero are top priorities, and on the other hand we are also told that it is great to have beef shipped to us from literally the other side of the world... (Tokyo is nearer to Brussels than Buenos Aires)

The process of shipping of beef from Buenos Aires to Brussels has a much smaller climate impact than the process of producing that beef in the first place. In particular, the methane burped up from cows has a gigantic impact on radiative forcing in the upper atmosphere. And again, the amount of beef being allowed to be shipped to Europe is quota'd to a quite amount relative to the domestic industry.

That's not to say that we shouldn't do anything about these emissions, but the solution is going to be to develop more climate friendly shipping techniques, not to eliminate global trade.

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#88

Post by AdrianB1 »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #58
AdrianB1 wrote: post #19

There is some valid criticism raised by farmers in my country (Romania) related to use of pesticides and other substances that are forbidden in EU, but permitted in Mercosur and products can be imported even with the forbidden substances in it. That sounds pretty bad, consumer protection is the only part that I still like about modern EU.

From consumer perspective this agreement changes nothing, explicitly stating that. It does not allow lower quality of products imported from Mercosur. All EU standards for food safety remain applicable and EU may adopt stronger standards in the future. Some stuff forbidden in EU is used in e.g. Brazil, but as long as residues are at safe level, it’s considered ok. European farmers are against this part, because their…

Safe level is a bad metric. Lately the safe level for alcohol consumption was set to zero, even if it was considered safe in the past to have some drinks.

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#89

Post by NoboruWataya »

embedding-shape wrote: post #77
onesandofgrain wrote: post #74

Cheaper coffee this must mean for europe.

And it's already pretty cheap, how much cheaper can it get? Usually you'd pay somewhere around 1-1.2 EUR for an espresso, 1.5-2.0 EUR for "fancier" coffees, at least here in Spain (depends a lot on exactly where though).

Coffee has been getting more expensive for years, albeit mainly due to climate-related factors rather than political ones. In northern Europe it (like most things) is a lot more expensive.

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#90

Post by bboozzoo »

lm28469 wrote: post #63
bboozzoo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come folks seem to focus on beef, while IMO the real stakes are in obtaining access to important minerals. Lithium, nickel, copper, graphite, niobium, etc. are often listed. There's a nice breakdown on EC pages: https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-cou...

Why do we focus on the shit part of the deal? Do I need to explain that really?

The shit part is what easily stris emotions and can be played by various actors and their agendas.
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