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The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

planetearthandbeyond.co

81–90 of 105 posts

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#81
post #8

I mostly agree, but I would have agreed with a similar article 10 years ago, and that would have been a fairly widely held opinion (e.g. Bill Gates was famously short Tesla). So I wouldn’t be so sure as this piece is in Tesla’s downfall, and the emotive language doesn’t help this look like an objective analysis. I also don’t like articles that take the industry consensus or expert opinion as a priori the correct opin…

I’ve considered Elon to be a bit of a bullshitter for almost as long as I’ve followed him. Back when he was an opportunistic Democrat, and now that he’s an ideological MAGA, his public statements always seemed to set off my bullshit detector. It seemed clear to me that his intention was more to manipulate perception rather than to disseminate factual information. While most business leaders are guilty of this to some degree, with Elon it seemed more cynically and nakedly so.

I’ve also come to consider him to be a skilled business person. He negotiated a ridiculous low price for the Fremont ex-NUMMI plant. He secured funding to enable Tesla to survive the GFC. The list goes on. I’d argue that Elon’s biggest wins were business related, not technical. Not that there weren’t technical accomplishments, it’s just that the technological accomplishments were more incremental SV type stuff whereas the business accomplishments were more heroic. I also give Tesla credit for the success of model S. But I consider that to be a function of good execution, not of technology. If that would have flopped it would have been the end. But there were many possible ways for Tesla to die back then.

One of Elon’s key business skills is his ability to sell a narrative. I guess that goes hand in hand with the “bullshitter” thing. He seems to have a magical ability to hypnotize fanboys and investors into believing that Tesla is more than it actually is.

The auto industry is not very sexy from an investor point of view. It’s a mature market, very capital intensive, high risk, low margin. Yet somehow Tesla achieves an outsized market cap.

As humorously noted in the HBO Silicon Valley “no revenue” scene, investors reward you for future promises and punish you on actual delivery. But what if you could promise a future that remains perpetually in the future? And every delivery is not an end, but only a step along the way to this utopian/distopian vision? What if you “promise the moon”, er, I mean Mars? If you did this, then maybe you could have a perpetual pure play that never expires.

So back to the article. Is this the demise of Tesla? I don’t know if Tesla necessarily has “no path forward” as “just a car company”. But I think Elon’s ability to sell the “sci-fi future” is wearing out. Tesla has delivered on some difficult business cases with incremental technology, but the track record on the “impossible future“ stuff isn’t good. Also, the mainstream EV industry will become increasingly commoditized with new Chinese entrants, eroding margins. Tariffs keep you in saturated markets and don’t help you in growing markets. So maybe a bit of a demise for all?

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#82
post #33
post #5

I used to really like and admire Musk. You could say I was a fanboy. I am still asking myself what the fuck happened? Was he faking his true character all this time and managed to dupe me? Did he suffer some brain damage which changed him this drastically? Was it too much social media, was it covid-related, was he poisoned? Did too much money and power get to him? I would seriously like to know. By know, knowing abou…

I find it odd to completely disavow someone because you don’t agree 100% with their politics. I mean Werner Von Braun was a Nazi party member and knowingly used slave labor. Doesn’t make his rocketry advancements any less impressive. Or Charles Darwin’s views of superior races. Or Gandhi’s gray area views of pedophilia. I mean if you’re going to discounted every person with a view you find distasteful your list of pe…

GP dislikes Must because s/he felt Musk duped them. What does that have to do with ad hominem? There's no objective argument to dislike; GP dislikes the way the objective arguments were put forth.

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#83

Does he need to deliver? The past few years have demonstrated that you can just lie about the next big thing.

Has SpaceX not delivered?

Falcon and Starlink certainly has but Starship could be argued is taking longer.

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am still asking myself what the fuck happened? I think the Scott Adams piece the other day[0] described the system dynamics well: "Once you’re sufficiently prominent, politics becomes a separating equilibrium; if you lean even slightly to one side, the other will pile on you so massively and traumatically that it will force you into their opponents’ open arms just for a shred of psychological security." I think B…

The big event just before he announced he was now voting Republican in May 2022 was newspapers reporting on him sexually harassing an employee 6 years earlier.

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Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#85
post #47
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of models doesn’t seem that relevant? If anything it would make Tesla’s numbers all the more impressive being a niche market EV.

Of course its relevant as Tesla is valued to much more than the other makers despite selling in total fewer cars. Tesla is indeed a niche maker, but their valuation does not reflect that fact.

We’re not discussing valuation we’re discussing model sales?

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#86
post #49
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it odd to completely disavow someone because you don’t agree 100% with their politics. I mean Werner Von Braun was a Nazi party member and knowingly used slave labor. Doesn’t make his rocketry advancements any less impressive. Or Charles Darwin’s views of superior races. Or Gandhi’s gray area views of pedophilia. I mean if you’re going to discounted every person with a view you find distasteful your list of pe…

> I find it odd to completely disavow someone because you don’t agree 100% with their politics. "politics": https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/usaid-shutdown-has-led-to-hund... https://www.cgdev.org/blog/update-lives-lost-usaid-cuts https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Those links are all political views.

Beyond the veracity of those numbers, it is a political decision whether or not the US should be spending $150B on foreigners or Americans.

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#87
post #76
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What objective evidence do we have that Musk is smart? Basically: he's extremely rich Working hard and being very good at negotiating compensation packages and picking the right companies/products to be involved with (and a bit of luck) are all sufficient for exorbitant wealth though. E.g. there are plenty of people just as smart as Bezos who didn't hitch their wagon to the "sell something easy on the web" idea at th…

What is a secular term for prosperity gospel?

Social darwinism.

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#88
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thai Cave rescue happened in 2018. It should have already made obvious how completely deranged Musk was to everyone, even if they were not paying close attention before and were dazzled by self-driving cars and Mars colonization promises.

That was certainly the first time he did something so obviously blatantly evil, and obviously his own fault, that I wasn't able to ignore it or dismiss it. It was sufficiently awful, at first I couldn't even believe he'd done it. When I internalised that he was the kind of person to do that, it made it much easier to see his other flaws.

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Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#89
post #5

I used to really like and admire Musk. You could say I was a fanboy. I am still asking myself what the fuck happened? Was he faking his true character all this time and managed to dupe me? Did he suffer some brain damage which changed him this drastically? Was it too much social media, was it covid-related, was he poisoned? Did too much money and power get to him? I would seriously like to know. By know, knowing abou…

When Elon was a teenager he bullied another kid about his father’s suicide until the other kid pushed him down a flight of stairs. He has always been like this. His character was never a secret. Everything was in plain view but you didn’t want to see it.

And he's like that because his father beat the crap out of him.

Re: The Walls Are Closing in on Tesla

#90
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it odd to completely disavow someone because you don’t agree 100% with their politics. I mean Werner Von Braun was a Nazi party member and knowingly used slave labor. Doesn’t make his rocketry advancements any less impressive. Or Charles Darwin’s views of superior races. Or Gandhi’s gray area views of pedophilia. I mean if you’re going to discounted every person with a view you find distasteful your list of pe…

And Hitler painted some nice watercolours.

But the history is written by victors.
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