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AI is a business model stress test

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Re: AI is a business model stress test

#81

Post by Culonavirus »

antirez wrote: post #39

> You can't prompt 99.95% uptime on Black Friday. Neither can you prompt your way to keeping a site secure, updated, and running. This is completely wrong. Agents will not just be able to write code, like they do now, but will also be able to handle operations, security, continuing to check, and improve the systems, tirelessly.

To be able to do this requires perfect domain knowledge AND environment knowledge AND be able to think deeply about logical dominoes (event propagation through the system, you know, the small stuff that crashes cloudflare for the entire planet for example).

Please wake me up when Shopify lets a bunch of agentic LLMs run their backends without human control and constant supervision.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#82

Post by bopbopbop7 »

antirez wrote: post #39

> You can't prompt 99.95% uptime on Black Friday. Neither can you prompt your way to keeping a site secure, updated, and running. This is completely wrong. Agents will not just be able to write code, like they do now, but will also be able to handle operations, security, continuing to check, and improve the systems, tirelessly.

So you think a statement about the current state of things is wrong because you believe that sometime in the future agents are going to magically do everything? Great argument!

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#83

Post by ronsor »

delfinom wrote: post #61
cogman10 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you train your model on this, your weights and training code must be published. The problem here is enforcement. It's well known that AI companies simply pirated content in order to train their models. No amount of license really helps in that scenario.

The problem here is "money". The AI goldrush has proven that intellectual property laws are null and void. Money is all that matters.

> The AI goldrush has proven that intellectual property laws are null and void. Money is all that matters.

Indeed they never really mattered. They were a tool for large corporations to make money and they will go away if they can no longer serve such purpose. Anyone that thought there was a real moral or ethical basis to "intellectual property" laws fell for propaganda and got scammed as a result.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#84

Post by kccqzy »

smt88 wrote: post #55
appplication wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If suddenly CSS became pleasant to use Not being sarcastic, but this will never be. CSS is a perfectly functional interface, but the only way it becomes less annoying is when you abstract it behind something more user friendly like tailwind or AI (or you spend years building up knowledge and intuition for its quirks and foibles). We have decades of data at this point that fairly conclusively shows that many people…

Things like flexbox have made CSS indescribably better and easier to use than it used to be. It's still bad, but degrees matter a lot. As a fullstack dev, I couldn't do pixel-perfect CSS 10 years ago, and today I can. That's a lot of progress.

I was already using flexbox ten years ago. And if the goal was pixel-perfect layout, I could do that twenty years ago using `position: absolute`.

I would instead characterize the recent developments in CSS as enabling good layout even when there are major unknowns in your content. It was always easy to write CSS tailored to one set of content (say, one style of toolbar in your UI), but it has become possible to write generic CSS (say, a generic toolbar component where the icons are unknown, the width and height are also unknown).

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#85

Post by ralph84 »

drivebyhooting wrote: post #4

In my opinion LLMs are intellectual property theft. Just as if I started distributing copies of books. This substantially reduces the incentive for the creation of new IP. All written text, art work, etc needs to come imbued with a GPL style license: if you train your model on this, your weights and training code must be published.

We already have more IP than any human could ever consume. Why do we need to incentivize anything? Those who are motivated by the creation itself will continue to create. Those who are motivated by the possibility of extracting rent may create less. Not sure that's a bad thing for humanity as a whole.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#86

Post by lacoolj »

Companies providing AI services should offer ads for the things the AI is using. And I don't mean "Tailwind could pay Google to advertise in Gemini", I mean "Google should be clearly and obviously linking back to Tailwind when it uses the library in its output"

They already do this sort of thing inside outputs from Deep Research, and possibly without. But the output should be less muted, inline, recessed and more "I have used Tailwind! Check out how to make it better [HERE](link)"

They should be working with the owners of these projects, especially ones with businesses, and directing traffic to them. Not everyone will go, and that's fine, but at least make the effort. The infrastructure is in place already.

And yes, right now this would not be across-the-board for every single library, but maybe it could be one day?

It's the same problem news sites have been facing for years because of Google News and Facebook. Their solution so far has been country-level bans on it (Canada).

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#87

Post by ronsor »

kachapopopow wrote: post #70
ronsor wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the tokenizer isn't immune to this A tokenizer's set of tokens isn't copyrightable in the first place, so it can't really be a derivative work of anything.

GPL however, does put restrictions on it, even the tokenizer. It was specifically crafted in a way where even if you do not have any GPL licensed sourcecode in your project, but it was built on top of it you are still binded by GPL limitations. the only reason usermode is not affected is because they have an exclusion for it and only via defined communication protocol, if you go around it or attempt to put a workarou…

> GPL however, does put restrictions on it, even the tokenizer. It was specifically crafted in a way where even if you do not have any GPL licensed sourcecode in your project, but it was built on top of it you are still binded by GPL limitations.

This is not how copyright law works. The GPL is a copyright license, as stated by the FSF. Something which is not subject to copyright cannot be subject to a copyright license.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#88

Post by mrtesthah »

wnjenrbr wrote: post #75
mrtesthah wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a tone deaf take that ignores the massive imbalance in how IP law is wielded by large corporations vs individuals or small firms.

No, it’s the most empowering thing humanity has ever constructed to wrestle the beast of IP and make it an irrelevant footnote in the human story. Deckchairs on the titanic. If one wastes their life in court, arguing 19th century myths, that’s on the players.

IP law is not going away for “little people” like us until we collectively overturn the existing political regime which grants more rights to corporations than people.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#89

Post by tetha »

geoffbp wrote: post #31

> Value is shifting to operations: deployment, testing, rollbacks, observability. You can't prompt 99.95% uptime on Black Friday. Neither can you prompt your way to keeping a site secure, updated, and running. I agree somewhat but eventually these can be automated with AI as well.

Unless you replace the entire workforce, you'd be surprised how much organizational work and soft skills are involved in an infrastructure at scale.

Like sure, there is a bunch of stuff like monitoring, alerting that is telling us that a database is filling up it's disk. This is already automated. It could also have automated remediation with tech from the 2000s with some simple rule-based systems (so you can understand why those misbehaved, instead of entirely opaque systems that just do whatever).

The thing is though, very often the problem isn't the disk filling up or fixing that.

The problem is rather figuring out what silly misbehavior the devs introduced, if a PM had a strange idea they did not validate, if this is backed by a business case and warrants more storage, if your upstream software has a bug, or whatever else. And then more stuff happens and you need to open support cases with your cloud provider because they just broke their API to resize disks, ...

And don't even get me started on trying to organize access management with a minimally organized project consulting team. Some ADFS config resulting from that is the trivial part.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#90

Post by nitwit005 »

lacoolj wrote: post #86

Companies providing AI services should offer ads for the things the AI is using. And I don't mean "Tailwind could pay Google to advertise in Gemini", I mean "Google should be clearly and obviously linking back to Tailwind when it uses the library in its output" They already do this sort of thing inside outputs from Deep Research, and possibly without. But the output should be less muted, inline, recessed and more "I…

But why would you click the tailwinds link if you're getting correct answers? You don't need documentation or consulting.

Google and Facebook couldn't provide full news articles because of copyright law. They just showed headline and summary provided by the news websites (and still eventually got sued for showing the summaries).

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