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Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

sciencedaily.com

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Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#81

Post by mustaphah »

cheald wrote: post #2

This is a finding that keeps coming up, and I've certainly found it true in my life, but there's a significant chicken-and-egg problem in that depression frequently precludes the motivation to exercise, and if you don't already have a deeply-disciplined routine to overcome the lack of motivation, people won't do it. Exhortation to develop those good habits in the good times, I suppose.

Once exercise becomes a habit, it's very easy to do even on days when your mood is terrible. A strict routine (initially) is the trick to making things easier forever.

You definitely want to build that habit when you're at your best.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#82

Post by hannob »

cheald wrote: post #2

This is a finding that keeps coming up, and I've certainly found it true in my life, but there's a significant chicken-and-egg problem in that depression frequently precludes the motivation to exercise, and if you don't already have a deeply-disciplined routine to overcome the lack of motivation, people won't do it. Exhortation to develop those good habits in the good times, I suppose.

True, but the same is true for therapy. Finding a good therapist isn't easy, and having depression certainly doesn't make it easier.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#83

Post by KellyCriterion »

gloxkiqcza wrote: post #71
KellyCriterion wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also have a "deeply-disciplined routine" and get thrown out of it and hit depression because exactly by that one impact. Source: Myself.

I’m not sure if you need to hear this but in case you do: There’s only one way to get back to it and the sooner you do it, the easier it is. First week is hardest, then the positive feedback loop starts kicking in. Do not to think about it, just get it done.

What most people without this "experience" never understand:

you just _cant_

If you've seen a distinct "low bar", its nearly impossible to get straight up above this bar

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#84

Post by Jtsummers »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #54
refulgentis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is 100% true, and what I'm about to describe isn't an attempt to falsify it: took me 11 years and 3 cities to figure it out. You don't have to exercise so much as get moving . I'm the best I've been in 37 years, and it's because in August I started forcing myself to just keep walking whenever I went out to have a cigarette. I was in Boston, and would end up ~nowhere and exhausted. Then started doing random stuff…

Getting moving *is* exercise. No way could I do a gym and these days most things in a gym would be just begging for joint pain. But the wilderness is a great gym (assuming you know what you're doing safety-wise, I see too many idiots out there.)

> Getting moving *is* exercise.

There's a difference between what something is and what something is perceived as. For whatever reasons they may have, many people have a strong negative emotional reaction to the idea of exercising, ask them to go for a two mile walk around the neighborhood with you and they'll balk. But then you take them to a city like Rome and they'll walk 20 miles in a day without even realizing it.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#85

Post by hu3 »

srameshc wrote: post #12

I will speak from my experience. I have diabetes and I try to manage it well, with workout. But sometimes when the sugars are high for a while, I can feel it, the sadness, the hopelessness. It took me a while to understand that is high sugar levels and a mild form of depression. Now I will do some workout when I feel that and after a little workout, I can see how my mind also start to feel better. This is not a solut…

hey friend, I'm glad to hear you found a way to improve things. It's not easy.

I also notice my mind better after workouts.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#86

Post by multiplegeorges »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #76
yomismoaqui wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motivation is fleeting but routine persists. When there is something that you want to do regularly (exercise, doing the final boring part of some sideproject, cleaning the house...) you remove willpower from the equation and set a day and a time. For example, everyday from 18 to 19 I work on my sideprojects, or saturdays from 16 to 18 is house cleaning time. There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that…

I bet simply having a dog needing walking tips the scales into an exercise routine at some level.

It did for me. You have to be truly heartless to see a dog being sad about not going outside. So you take it for a walk, then another and another. Soon enough you're researching hiking trails in your region and getting healthier.

Dogs are the best.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#87

Post by smeej »

yomismoaqui wrote: post #68
cheald wrote: post #2

This is a finding that keeps coming up, and I've certainly found it true in my life, but there's a significant chicken-and-egg problem in that depression frequently precludes the motivation to exercise, and if you don't already have a deeply-disciplined routine to overcome the lack of motivation, people won't do it. Exhortation to develop those good habits in the good times, I suppose.

Motivation is fleeting but routine persists. When there is something that you want to do regularly (exercise, doing the final boring part of some sideproject, cleaning the house...) you remove willpower from the equation and set a day and a time. For example, everyday from 18 to 19 I work on my sideprojects, or saturdays from 16 to 18 is house cleaning time. There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that…

> There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that time and I have to do it, period.

Gosh it must be nice to have at least an ordinary amount of executive function skills. Is it really this easy for neurotypical people to build routines? That's really all it takes?

I don't see how this removes willpower at all. It just determines what time you have to use it.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#88

Post by smeej »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #69
boplicity wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a certain amount of "willpower" that can overcome motivational barriers. This willpower is limited, though. It's very helpful to have clear guidance on where to allocate this very limited resources, especially in situations where people are otherwise struggling. All of which is to say -- these exhortations can play a useful role. :)

It's also worth noting that willpower in general is constantly being whittled down by how stressful and, for lack of better term, fucking annoying modern life is. I'm reminded of a quote from my favorite article from Ed Zitron: > In plain terms, everybody is being fucked with constantly in tiny little ways by most apps and services, and I believe that billions of people being fucked with at once in all of these ways…

> existing for them must be utter HELL.

You've certainly hit upon why they use the same password for every single thing.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#89

Post by smeej »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #48
boplicity wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a certain amount of "willpower" that can overcome motivational barriers. This willpower is limited, though. It's very helpful to have clear guidance on where to allocate this very limited resources, especially in situations where people are otherwise struggling. All of which is to say -- these exhortations can play a useful role. :)

Yup, which is why diets fail. People who are fat generally do not have enough available willpower to lose weight.

To solve digestive problems, I managed to eat the exact same meal every single meal for 20 straight months. And it didn't help me lose weight.

So I dispute this statement with some enthusiasm.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#90

Post by ElijahLynn »

The audiobook Spark by Dr. John Ratey, psychiatrist is a great listen with a bunch more evidence based arguments to support that exercise is better then drugs for depression.

I highly recommend the audiobook as it is read by him and he is very enthusiastic about his research.

The one quote I remember from the book is that he stopped prescribing Prozac and started prescribing treadmills...

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