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"They Saw a Protest": Cognitive Illiberalism and the Speech-Conduct Distinction [pdf] (2012)

stanfordlawreview.org

81–83 of 83 posts

Re: "They Saw a Protest": Cognitive Illiberalism and the Speech-Conduct Distinction [pdf] (2012)

#81
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The in-progress community notes are a shit show too. I saw the video and saw someone trying to avoid the ICE agent, but also being EXTREMELY reckless about driving a huge SUV close to people with guns. Everyone is at fault here imo.

The ICE agents WANTED to use guns, they just put themselves in a position where a seemingly trivial action by the driver could be twisted to be perceived as enough of a threat to justify pulling a gun out and shooting them multiple times in the head. Murderers with a badge.

If you believe all that, which I assume the woman in the car did, why did she push the gas pedal? If the ICE agents wanted to shoot someone as you say, doesn't that logically also imply that the woman in the car wanted to be shot at? The logic goes both ways.

Of course, consequences matter, hopefully the ICE agent is prosecuted, fired, and jailed.

Re: "They Saw a Protest": Cognitive Illiberalism and the Speech-Conduct Distinction [pdf] (2012)

#82
post #63
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how this intersects with the point of the paper, but part of the problem with the Renee Good case (or things like it) in my opinion is that the focus too often is on the actual events at a particular moment, and not what is surrounding it. I can see some argument, for example, that goes something like "Jonathan Ross was afraid he was going to get hit by a car and misperceived her as trying to ram him whe…

This may be related to your point, but I think another problem is that we focus on isolated events instead of applying systems thinking. Any large scale government system will result in accidental deaths. Amtrak has killed almost 600 people in the last four years. (This is not unique to Amtrak. It’s inherent in any rail system that has crossings at grade: https://www.vice.com/en/article/a-train-driver-talks-about-w..…

Good pointbut we’re human so martyrs will be made.

Re: "They Saw a Protest": Cognitive Illiberalism and the Speech-Conduct Distinction [pdf] (2012)

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you want me to say. "some people are wrong and dumb" is not an argument compelling enough to me to reject the evidence of my eyes and ears.

The point is that "other people" use the same exact argument too. The evidence of _their_ eyes and ears. This is not meaningful. I think "ok, I was wrong" is what you could've said.

their eyes and ears are bad I guess. sometimes other people really are just dumb and wrong.

when two people disagree, the truth doesn't always lie "in the middle."

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