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Brands upset Buy For Me is featuring their products on Amazon without permission

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Re: Brands upset Buy For Me is featuring their products on Amazon without permission

#81

Post by AlotOfReading »

jonhohle wrote: post #73
kayson wrote: post #32

Wouldn't this be violating copyrights left and right? Presumably most of these listings have pictures and I'd be surprised if Amazon were asking permission to reproduce them. Would the same apply to item descriptions...?

The first sale doctrine allows for public of owned works for the purpose of sale. Otherwise eBay, used book store, and flea markets would all be massively violating copyright.

First sale doctrine doesn't apply here. Amazon never owns the products being sold. They're just purchasing products on behalf of the actual owner.

Moreover, I'm pretty sure purchasing a product does not give you the rights to use all the marketing materials for that product. Those copyrights are separate.

And the act of listing inherently happens before any purchase.

Re: Brands upset Buy For Me is featuring their products on Amazon without permission

#82

Post by autoexec »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #41
gcr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually happened to some restaurants who found their service on DoorDash. The restaurant owners were able to make a fine profit out of DoorDash’s arbitrage scheme.

Indeed! Discussed at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23216852

It's worth pointing out that it only worked because doordash scraped their menu incorrectly (using AI maybe?) and used the price of a plain pizza for specialty pizzas. Also it was a trial period where they waved all their usual fees.

Re: Brands upset Buy For Me is featuring their products on Amazon without permission

#83

Post by autoexec »

ehhthing wrote: post #57
kayson wrote: post #32

Wouldn't this be violating copyrights left and right? Presumably most of these listings have pictures and I'd be surprised if Amazon were asking permission to reproduce them. Would the same apply to item descriptions...?

Search engines would have been violating copyright for the last 20 years.

Much of the internet is copyright violations. If copyright were enforced as written the internet as you know it would stop existing. Our draconian copyright laws are designed to protect the power and profits of a small number of industries and unless they see profit in going after the countless violations that go on every single day they just look the other way while extorting easy targets with fat wallets. The last thing they want is to piss off enough powerful people that laws get changed and their racket gets disrupted.

Re: Brands upset Buy For Me is featuring their products on Amazon without permission

#84

Post by autoexec »

bastawhiz wrote: post #25
krater23 wrote: post #9

When Amazon can buy stuff on your own website thats out of stock for wholesale prices without your knowledge, it's time to get your shit together. Your shop software is at least misconfigured. When you really lose trust from your partners because officially announced things Amazon does, like adding your products to their shop system, then your partners have no trust in you at all. When you don't want that Amazon sell…

> Delivering doubled prices to AI crawlers would be a advanced thing. Doubling prices to the AI now means you're product shows up twice as expensive on Amazon. Nobody is comparing Amazon to your site directly, they're comparing your product on Amazon to the next item on Amazon. Now instead of this person going to Google to find your product, they're skipping your product entirely. That is, if I go to Amazon and searc…

If you find something on amazon you want to buy (and if it's made by a real company and not by some random string of letters) you should always check the actual company's website no matter what amazon's price is. I've found that amazon often has prices that are much higher than if you buy directly.

Re: Brands upset Buy For Me is featuring their products on Amazon without permission

#85

Post by danaris »

ajross wrote: post #80
danaris wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I say this was a legal argument? I don't see that anywhere. And there's absolutely zero chance the current administration is going to take any positive antitrust steps unless the target just happens to be one that seriously pisses off Trump. "Monopolies shouldn't be allowed to control everything" is a practical, economic, and moral argument before it is a legal one. If there is no legal framework to protect small…

> Did I say this was a legal argument? I don't see that anywhere. Ahem, I said that , in the comment to which you responded. Forgive me for making assumptions about the context of discussion. But that said, I still don't see where you're going with this. No fix for what you want exists that wouldn't also outlaw stuff like fashion consultants, custom PC builders and thrift shops.

Of course it wouldn't, if those businesses weren't also monopolies.

It really is frustrating sometimes dealing with people on HN who assume that there can only ever be one set of rules for how businesses can deal with each other: that no matter how dominant a given company gets, you can never make them abide by a preset more-restrictive ruleset, or design specific rules for them that prevent them from abusing that dominance to hurt other people or businesses.

Antitrust law is specifically designed to do exactly that. It has been essentially abandoned over the past 3-4 decades in the US, in favor of Gordon Gekko's motto of "greed is good", with the Chicago School's "principles" essentially being "if it's more efficient™ for the economy, that's better; monopolies are more efficient™, so we should just let them do whatever they want," but what I describe is (more or less) what it is supposed to do.

Re: Brands upset Buy For Me is featuring their products on Amazon without permission

#86

Post by kstenerud »

Lazare wrote: post #52
saghm wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fundamentally fine"? How do you think Amazon would react to someone scraping their marketplace and posting the inventory under their own service? Unless the answer is "they'd be perfectly happy to have to opt out individually in each case", that's a double standard. The only reason they wouldn't actually need to care about this is because they have comparatively inexhaustive resources to be able to shut this sort of…

As someone else noted, Amazon sent a cease and desist letter when someone tried more-or-less the same thing on them ( https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/company-news/amazon-perplex... ), so it's absolutely a double standard, yes. But that doesn't answer the question of what rights vendors actually have here (much less what rights they should have).

The fact that Amazon even allows vendors to request de-listing (and the fact that Amazon does it promptly) would suggest that Amazon's lawyers have recommended that they do this (and that it's likely for a good reason).

We, as non-lawyers, may never know. But they obviously know something... Enough to spook them.

Re: Brands upset Buy For Me is featuring their products on Amazon without permission

#87

Post by araes »

After reading through the Shopify website, this story's confusing. This is kind of what Shopify advertises. Like, it's basically their service.

Initially read this, and thought they were some other retailer with quasi-direct sales, and Amazon was scraping, and then listing stuff like it was on Amazon. Yet, Shopify from [1] and [2]:

[1] https://www.shopify.com/marketing

[2] https://www.shopify.com/channels

Their spiel is "Unify your marketing ... all from one place." and then they go on to list Target, Walmart, eBay, and ... "Amazon". (also Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest, Snapchat) "Sell everywhere people scroll, search, and shop"

It's literally their business. That's what you pay them to do. "Sync your product catalog to the leading marketplaces, then easily manage and fulfill every order in one central place."

Couple things that are "maybe" honestly wrong. Maybe opted out of Amazon as a partner, inside Shopify? Also, inventory not actually being updated and communicated to Shopify / Amazon correctly?

The way this site reads it seems like you could find out you have some influencer spokesperson and your products are on Walmart shelves somewhere and not even realize it.

Re: Brands upset Buy For Me is featuring their products on Amazon without permission

#88

Post by bastawhiz »

autoexec wrote: post #84
bastawhiz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Delivering doubled prices to AI crawlers would be a advanced thing. Doubling prices to the AI now means you're product shows up twice as expensive on Amazon. Nobody is comparing Amazon to your site directly, they're comparing your product on Amazon to the next item on Amazon. Now instead of this person going to Google to find your product, they're skipping your product entirely. That is, if I go to Amazon and searc…

If you find something on amazon you want to buy (and if it's made by a real company and not by some random string of letters) you should always check the actual company's website no matter what amazon's price is. I've found that amazon often has prices that are much higher than if you buy directly.

Honestly, higher prices on Amazon are worth it in some cases. Amazon fulfillment (at least where I live) is far more reliable than some of the brands I buy from, but getting the product within a week versus [gestures at the future] is worth it in some cases.

Take the soap I buy from Blueland. A spray cleaner costs $2.25/tablet direct and $2.40 from Amazon. I'll basically get a free month of cleaner buying direct. But:

1. I have to pay $5 for shipping if I don't buy enough at once. I don't want to buy a year of soap all at once to get free shipping.

2. I know exactly what date it'll arrive if I order on Amazon. Probably before I'll need it. Ordering direct, it sometimes takes weeks before it even leaves the warehouse, with no estimate.

I'm sure I could be being more efficient, but I'd rather spend the extra few bucks sometimes so I don't have to worry about running out of stuff or try to predict my needs months out.

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