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China DRAM Maker CXMT Targets $4.2B IPO as It Takes on Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron

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Re: China DRAM Maker CXMT Targets $4.2B IPO as It Takes on Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron

#81

Post by ahartmetz »

coliveira wrote: post #55
tooltalk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was mostly in the 80's during the cold war. IMO, and it's not even really clear how Samsung's DRAM business really benefited from the state backing. The South Korea gov't first major initiative "Semiconductor Industry Promotion Plan" started only after Samsung'd developed their first 64K DRAM in 1983. It really helped other local industry competitors such as LG and Hyundai catch up, but Samsung was already on a…

As mentioned in the sibling comment, Samsung practically owns S Korea. It's a fools errand to separate Samsung from the government.

Don't entirely discount the other chaebol.

Re: China DRAM Maker CXMT Targets $4.2B IPO as It Takes on Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron

#82

Post by heavyset_go »

zarzavat wrote: post #70
heavyset_go wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of countries gave Huawei the same treatment the US did, and the US and its allies have the weight to impose sanctions, tariffs, etc to punish consumers within their borders for daring to consider better and cheaper options.

Yes, and? There are Huawei stores all over Asia, that little place where 60% of people live.

Sucks for everyone else is what I'm saying. 100% of people should be allowed access, not be preempted from it in order to protect the value of exalted tech cartels.

Re: China DRAM Maker CXMT Targets $4.2B IPO as It Takes on Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron

#83

Post by ZWoz »

anonymous908213 wrote: post #57
dmix wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an announcement of increased competition in a market with acute supply shortages. That’s exactly what is supposed to happen. Jumping to regulating the global RAM market this early sounds like the worst of all solutions. You want people to get cross-government approval every time they want to buy or sell RAM? American companies will call up Korea to get their RAM rations.

Note that the company in question is specifically sanctioned by the US, so this is not exactly a glowing example of the utopia of the free market you seem to be holding it up as. Rationing chips makes sense to me. You don't have to set the ration at a low enough level that it would ever impact legitimate businesses. You could just set a ration level that prevents a company that is losing hundreds of billions of dolla…

Seems like supporting argument against governmental regulation. In this specific case, against sanctions.

Re: China DRAM Maker CXMT Targets $4.2B IPO as It Takes on Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron

#84

Post by xzjis »

walterbell wrote: post #5

https://www.semiconsam.com/p/why-did-the-memory-chicken-game... | https://s-space.snu.ac.kr/bitstream/10371/95351/1/01%20Jeho%... Chinese memory makers are the product of massive state backing, with tens of billions of dollars in subsidies and the full weight of the Chinese government behind them. Could Samsung win a power struggle against the Chinese government? .. The market that [Samsung, SK Hynix and Micron] crea…

As a free-software advocate, I believe competition should be based on investment in industrial machinery and labour, not on secretly guarded know-how. If Samsung, Micron, and SK-Electronics weren't an oligopoly trying to squeeze maximum profit out of consumers and instead offered good prices, China wouldn't be able to—and would have no interest in—subsidizing private companies to get them on the same level. It's only the greed of these three companies in their oligopoly that has put them in such a fragile position, where the slightest competition could be fatal to them.

Re: China DRAM Maker CXMT Targets $4.2B IPO as It Takes on Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron

#85

Post by KronisLV »

MrGilbert wrote: post #8

Would love to see them succeed and take on the pc builder market, aka hobbyist market. Honestly, the recent rise in RAM left me behind with a huge amount of disbelief and anger. Anger primarily, because big corporations are responsible for draining the market, while on the other hand a Satya Nadella states that they are sitting on a pile of GPUs they cannot use because of limited power.[1] I simply cannot understand…

Same with Chinese GPUs: https://videocardz.com/newz/chinas-lisuan-begins-shipping-6n...

Sure those particular ones are still using TSMC but at least people are doing something to prevent everything from being such oligopolies: which is also why I own an Intel Arc A580 and B580.

Any step towards market competition is nice to hear about.

Re: China DRAM Maker CXMT Targets $4.2B IPO as It Takes on Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron

#86

Post by Fnoord »

peter_d_sherman wrote: post #71
tooltalk wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first three dominate 95+% of the market.

That's true. Coke and Pepsi dominate the worldwide drink market, but due to the immense size of the market, there are always up-and-coming competitors. Go to your local superstore, supermarket, or your local convenience store. You'll find Coke and Pepsi, lots of it, but you'll also find no-name drinks and sodas from drink companies that are not as well established yet or well known. That those exist is a good thing,…

I'm not forced to drink Coke or Pepsi if I go to a bar. Only if I specifically want a cola I very likely get whatever cola they got (likely either Coke or Pepsi). If you want to use a computer, it will have DRAM, and you'll end up with one of the DRAM hardware manufacturers.

> Let's remember that OpenAI came from basically nowhere -- to give Google a run for its money -- as did Google with Microsoft's behemoth 20+ years ago...

Yeah, but the capital behind it certainly did not:

> OpenAI was initially founded as a nonprofit organization by Altman, Greg Brockman, Elon Musk, Jessica Livingston, Peter Thiel, Microsoft, Amazon Web Services, Infosys, and YC Research. When OpenAI launched in 2015, it had raised pledges for $1 billion. [1]

Altman was well connected, with rich friends. People like Thiel and Musk. Under the guise of a non-profit they eventually pulled a rug to make OpenAI for-profit.

The barrier of entry for hardware design is also just plain different than software. There was a good talk on that recently on 39c3.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Altman

Re: China DRAM Maker CXMT Targets $4.2B IPO as It Takes on Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron

#87

Post by walterbell »

dworks wrote: post #30
walterbell wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If (SO)DIMM memory prices rise to the stratosphere while integrated memory in Chinese mini PCs remain relatively affordable, from 16GB Intel N150 to 128GB AMD Strix Halo for Edge AI, there will be industry-altering consequences that persist long after DRAM pseudo-shortages end. Oligopolists can relearn old lessons, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator%27s_Dilemma New companies that serve low-value customers wi…

Indeed. I am waiting to buy a Strix Halo on Taobao when supply has been replenished. I asked the manufacturer if price would remain the same after restocking, they said they weren't sure. They re-stock in the middle of January, so it will be interesting to see what the price ends up being. I wonder if there is any advantage of having integrated memory in this regard?

> any advantage of having integrated memory

Power efficiency. Strix Halo also offers unified CPU/GPU memory with 256 GB/s memory bandwidth, which brings it closer to Apple Silicon performance for local LLMs, https://chipsandcheese.com/p/strix-halos-memory-subsystem-ta...

Another opportunity is low-latency storage with millions of IOPS. Nvidia is rebooting Intel's cancelled (see eBay) Optane for "AI Storage". Future Mini PCs and LLM accelerators for Narrow/Edge AI industrial use could benefit from high-IOPS storage, https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/nvidia-and-kioxia...

Re: China DRAM Maker CXMT Targets $4.2B IPO as It Takes on Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron

#88

Post by Neywiny »

roenxi wrote: post #75
Neywiny wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all money circles. Everything's made up and nothing matters

How do you expect this comment to be interpreted? I'm ruling out RAM as a social construct, I'm pretty sure it exists in the physical world.

It actually kinda doesn't. I more meant around the GPUs where directly or otherwise Nvidia pays Microsoft, Microsoft pays Nvidia, both stocks go up by more than those amounts, profit.

But for RAM, Sam Altman didn't put in a purchase order for idk 10 trillion DIMMs or something. He said he would buy a bunch of wafers. A tweet had put it well: he said he'd buy wafers that don't yet exist for computers that don't exist for data centers that don't exist for AI models that don't exist for demand that doesn't exist.

So the demand is kinda made up the same way there were TP shortages at the height of covid. There's plenty enough to go around, but one person rocks the boat and everyone goes nuts.

Re: China DRAM Maker CXMT Targets $4.2B IPO as It Takes on Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron

#89

Post by TitaRusell »

heavyset_go wrote: post #47
checker659 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world exists outside the US too you know.

Plenty of countries gave Huawei the same treatment the US did, and the US and its allies have the weight to impose sanctions, tariffs, etc to punish consumers within their borders for daring to consider better and cheaper options.

There's a difference between cutting off a phone from Google apps and a memory stick. Huawei phones became basically useless for every day use.

With RAM you can always just AliExpress it. I live in a small country yet every day literally MILLIONS of packages come in from Asia.

Re: China DRAM Maker CXMT Targets $4.2B IPO as It Takes on Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron

#90

Post by TiredOfLife »

heavyset_go wrote: post #41
MrGilbert wrote: post #8

Would love to see them succeed and take on the pc builder market, aka hobbyist market. Honestly, the recent rise in RAM left me behind with a huge amount of disbelief and anger. Anger primarily, because big corporations are responsible for draining the market, while on the other hand a Satya Nadella states that they are sitting on a pile of GPUs they cannot use because of limited power.[1] I simply cannot understand…

I'd love to see it, but they'll be given the BYU/Huawei/etc treatment to keep the silicon cartel's margins from crashing.

Are they known to supply Iran?
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