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Steve wants us to make the Macintosh boot faster

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Re: Steve wants us to make the Macintosh boot faster

#81

Post by ramesh31 »

integralid wrote: post #66
lanthade wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of a story I heard about a bus driver who would always pull away from the stop right on schedule even if a regular rider was running up. His calculation was the 30 seconds spent waiting for one rider was an aggregate of many minutes lost by the riders who were on time for their stops. What looked cruel to one was a kindness to many.

>many minutes A bus can easily carry 50 passengers. 30 seconds times that many is 25 minutes. That's a lot of aggregate time wasted indeed. Also assuming this 30 seconds delay is not compensated later, it can influence significantly more people than the bus capacity. And if someone misses a connection because of it that's even more time wasted.

Training on conversations like these are why the Skynet LLM will optimize us out of existence within moments of coming online.

Re: Steve wants us to make the Macintosh boot faster

#82

Post by chihuahua »

pwthornton wrote: post #51
cogman10 wrote: post #2

If there's one thing that I think was revolutionary about Jobs, it was his obsession with quality and user experience. You simply don't find that quality in a lot of tech CEOs. Jobs was willing to burn a load of developer time doing performance tuning. Most other CEOs then and today had an attitude that was more along the line of "We'll just buy more/faster hardware. It's a waste of time to make things faster". A lot…

There is also the story about Steve throwing a MacBook Air on a conference room table and asking why does the iPad wake from sleep so much faster? And then he told them to fix it and make Mac laptops sleep/wake just as well as iOS. Sleep/Wake is one area where MacOS absolutely destroys Windows.

How can MacOS possibly sleep/wake any faster than Windows? My Lenovo X1C wakes up so quickly that the limiting factor is how fast I can enter my PIN on the keyboard. Well below 1 second, maybe 0.5 seconds. Going to sleep is the same, I'm not going to measure it but it feels like it's about 0.3 seconds.

Re: Steve wants us to make the Macintosh boot faster

#83

Post by mpalmer »

spankibalt wrote: post #16

> "If there's one thing that I think was revolutionary about Jobs, it was his obsession with quality and user experience." You're talking about specific user experiences based on Jobs's dogmas. There's also absolutely nothing revolutionary about quality and user experience for that existed long before Steve Jobs "invented" it. ;) > "A lot of the reason people are hating on windows now-a-days is because "fast enough"…

GP clearly said that it was Jobs' obsession that was revolutionary.

In bringing up modern Apple, you are arguing against things no one here has said.

And are you actually claiming that Windows is an open ecosystem...? And in fact so great is its openness that slow UX isn't even a problem?

Re: Steve wants us to make the Macintosh boot faster

#84

Post by nasretdinov »

SoftTalker wrote: post #37
aeyes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wake from sleep, not boot. I have a MacBook sitting in front of me and I just tested it: It wakes from sleep pretty much instantly.

Was that a hardware or a software improvement? My Dell laptop running Ubuntu wakes from sleep pretty much instantly.

Probably both. Apple Silicon macbooks seem to never actually sleep, they just switch to the energy efficient cores, similar to how iPhones / iPads never truly sleep either. You can tell by leaving e.g. a while loop in zsh running and printing the date + sleep, and when you reopen the lid you'll see quite a few iterations actually completed.

Re: Steve wants us to make the Macintosh boot faster

#85

Post by spankibalt »

mpalmer wrote: post #83
spankibalt wrote: post #16

> "If there's one thing that I think was revolutionary about Jobs, it was his obsession with quality and user experience." You're talking about specific user experiences based on Jobs's dogmas. There's also absolutely nothing revolutionary about quality and user experience for that existed long before Steve Jobs "invented" it. ;) > "A lot of the reason people are hating on windows now-a-days is because "fast enough"…

GP clearly said that it was Jobs' obsession that was revolutionary. In bringing up modern Apple, you are arguing against things no one here has said. And are you actually claiming that Windows is an open ecosystem...? And in fact so great is its openness that slow UX isn't even a problem?

> "GP clearly said that it was Jobs' obsession that was revolutionary."

And that's utterly inaccurate; nothing about that kind of behavior was revolutionary in any way; lots of CEOs were, are and will be obsessed with quality. If they can translate that into product lines, and to what extend, is written on another piece of paper.

I, for my part, was never impressed with Apple; their only product I really liked was one that Jobs allegedly hated: the Newton.

> "In bringing up modern Apple, you are arguing against things no one here has said."

It contrasts the criticism of modern Windows the guy I replied to brought up. :)

> "And are you actually claiming that Windows is an open ecosystem...?"

Uhm... no. But the IBM-compatible family obviously was and still is (x86/x64). It's not exactly Sharp's OS-agnostic "clean computer" concept, but it's the next best thing.

> "And in fact so great is its openness that slow UX isn't even a problem?"

Again, no. I said the Windows UX is, or can be, fast enough and is therefore virtually a non-problem (Windows's problems have much more to do with Microsoft's abominable corporate culture).

Unless you're computer illiterate and bloat-up your system with badly-coded applications, and/or don't do due dilligence by way of choosing, streamlining and maintaining the best Windows version for you in the first place. And yes, I'm aware that both can sometimes not be avoided as one is forced into specific toolchains.

Re: Steve wants us to make the Macintosh boot faster

#86

Post by [deleted] »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #54
cogman10 wrote: post #2

If there's one thing that I think was revolutionary about Jobs, it was his obsession with quality and user experience. You simply don't find that quality in a lot of tech CEOs. Jobs was willing to burn a load of developer time doing performance tuning. Most other CEOs then and today had an attitude that was more along the line of "We'll just buy more/faster hardware. It's a waste of time to make things faster". A lot…

Hm. The one-button mouse? That was part of the design impact - for user experience, it wasn't much of a win. Likewise the faulty power cords and noisy power supplies (no choke on the power cable, because it looks ugly!) How about the soldered-down components and device cases with special screws to keep users from ever opening them? That was not 'for the user', that was more 'walled garden'. In fact, I'm not sure wher…

[deleted]

Re: Steve wants us to make the Macintosh boot faster

#87

Post by giancarlostoro »

SoftTalker wrote: post #33
giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think .NET is one of the few projects Microsoft maintains that I admire that feel like they care a lot about quality, you can tell the people working on it are focused on performance and making sure its really well rounded. I would argue that .NET is Microsoft's greatest achievement / work of all time.

.NET has viable competitors. Windows, due to its monopoly, dominates the PC world no matter how bad it is.

Yeah but it is arguably not well done as described, it has strengths but they have been on a downward spiral of marketing driven development.

Re: Steve wants us to make the Macintosh boot faster

#88

Post by giancarlostoro »

dijit wrote: post #28
giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think .NET is one of the few projects Microsoft maintains that I admire that feel like they care a lot about quality, you can tell the people working on it are focused on performance and making sure its really well rounded. I would argue that .NET is Microsoft's greatest achievement / work of all time.

Agreed. SQL Server is of equally high quality. We just have postgres in the open source world (which is truly exceptional) so our expectations are higher. I am the first to hate on Microsoft, their OS is a dumpster fire that I feel is forced on me. But sometimes they knock it out of the park.

Thats a solid callout. Not everyones favorite but honestly I never have insane issues when I work with it, nothing out of the ordinary anyway.

Re: Steve wants us to make the Macintosh boot faster

#89

Post by apple4ever »

cogman10 wrote: post #2

If there's one thing that I think was revolutionary about Jobs, it was his obsession with quality and user experience. You simply don't find that quality in a lot of tech CEOs. Jobs was willing to burn a load of developer time doing performance tuning. Most other CEOs then and today had an attitude that was more along the line of "We'll just buy more/faster hardware. It's a waste of time to make things faster". A lot…

And you can tell the difference with how long he has been gone. MacOS is terrible now. So many weird bugs and performance issues. Not that Jobs was perfect, of course. But he cared in a way others didn't, like you said. Cook clearly doesn't.

Re: Steve wants us to make the Macintosh boot faster

#90

Post by apple4ever »

astrange wrote: post #75
nntwozz wrote: post #11

In the same vein many years later: -- After the original iPad was released, Steve Jobs held a meeting with the MacBook engineering team and demonstrated the difference in wake speed. He woke up a current MacBook (with an Intel chip), which took a few seconds. He then instantly woke up the iPad (with an Apple A-series chip) by pressing the home/power button on and off rapidly. Jobs told the team, "I want you to make t…

There are many performance engineering jobs open at Apple if you would like to search the careers page.

All of which are managed by people who don't care like Jobs did
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