Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

carbuzz.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 125 posts

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#81

Post by haritha-j »

georgefrowny wrote: post #54
markus_zhang wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess eventually people will buy the cheapest cars and treat it as a consumer product that breaks down every few years, like a laptop. Or simply find a remote job and rent a car. Welcome to the Dystopian world.

> Guess eventually people will buy the cheapest car It looks like lots of people choose to lease very expensive cars, and give them back after 3 years for a new one, dropping a obsolescence time-bomb onto the second-hand market and providing a strong signal to manufacturers that there is a substantial maintainability-insensitive market segment. I am still surprised that no manufacturer has a balls-out "buy our cars,…

You should see motability

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#82

Post by salawat »

ryeights wrote: post #56
cookiengineer wrote: post #10

That already is old news, lots of manufacturers do that. For example, the Passat 3B and later platforms introduced proprietary screws for the wheels and brakes, so you weren't able to change them yourself. Same for all kinds of sensors that will go rogue when the car is turned off and you change a sensor on the engine. All firmware gradually was modified each generation to allow less modifications and less self repai…

>What do you think happened with the Golf 3 engine design? They made the camshaft structurally weaker, so the engine will blow up more easily. Wow, talk about an oversimplification. The Mk3 moved from an 8-valve to a 16-valve engine; yes, this adds more valvetrain failure modes but also brings myriad other benefits, increased power, better fuel economy, reduced emissions… The idea that a carmaker would purposely engi…

>The idea that a carmaker would purposely engineer flaws into core engine components in order to drive future sales doesn’t make much sense.

You need to realize modern business revolves not around one-and-done, but around recurring revenue streams. To the "business minded" the only thing that doesn't make sense is leaving money on the table.

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#83

Post by tpm »

xienze wrote: post #77
tpm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a different legislation. Ford in the EU is a european car manufacturer with around 100 years of history, so yeah, I think the answer will be the same as for BMW. And sure, car makers have special status - they have just recently secured a huge win in reducing the scope of emmission-related fines, which will now be charged from 10g/km instead of 0g/km from 2035. But this too applies to every manufacturer.

> That is a different legislation. I understand the legislation is different, but the anti-consumer sentiment is the same, but worse in this case since I have a feeling the screw bit won't be nearly as available and cheap as Lightning cables are. > Ford in the EU is a european car manufacturer An American company with factories in the EU. I don't think it's the same as a company headquartered in the EU.

No, anti-consumer sentiment is "you have to buy a different charger for each device and it becomes obsolete with the device".

Factories in the EU means workers employed and taxes paid in the EU. It means a lot here.

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#84

Post by salawat »

Damogran6 wrote: post #60
mwexler wrote: post #29

Watch makers have moved to this model over the last few years as well. The Swatch group has restricted access to movements and parts by acquiring major movement manufacturers, forcing the industry to use duplicate parts, some produced in violation of patents (dep on region). The patents attempt to protect proprietary approaches adding complexity through unique pieces, which rarely add functionality or new value. BTW,…

Having just bought a Mini Cooper, I'm in the initial free-services period of the ownership and honestly, if it's the $10 a month I suspect, I'm okay with it. Primarily for the navigation...it really is superior to the Carplay experience (a square in the middle of the round screen, vs a map that takes up nearly the entirety of the screen...IIRC, traffic, Weather, remote start, and voice control come along for the ride…

No, it bloody well isn't, and I kindly request you stop with that nonsense. Remote start is a glorified CAN message paired with either a TOTP or HOTP message. That's it. There should be zero room for a manufacturer to justify inserting themselves in the middle except greed. Goddamn tired of solving problems only to see companies keeping the problem around for the sake of market segmentation.

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#85

Post by Krasnol »

rollcat wrote: post #47
madduci wrote: post #26

The solution is simple: just stop buying BMW.

Voting with your money doesn't work in a world where all wealth is concentrated in oligopolies.

Oligarchs can buy only so many BMWs.

It does work but so does advertising which is why the mass which is actually relevant here, will not react. They don't care about the screws. They don't even care about the extra cost for specials. They'll go out there and advertise the fact that they can afford a BMW with ALL features and so it spreads on...

We're also not even talking only about the private customer. It's business cars who are even more relevant.

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#86

Post by xienze »

tpm wrote: post #83
xienze wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is a different legislation. I understand the legislation is different, but the anti-consumer sentiment is the same, but worse in this case since I have a feeling the screw bit won't be nearly as available and cheap as Lightning cables are. > Ford in the EU is a european car manufacturer An American company with factories in the EU. I don't think it's the same as a company headquartered in the EU.

No, anti-consumer sentiment is "you have to buy a different charger for each device and it becomes obsolete with the device". Factories in the EU means workers employed and taxes paid in the EU. It means a lot here.

> No, anti-consumer sentiment is "you have to buy a different charger for each device and it becomes obsolete with the device".

But you don't? The other end of any Lightning connector is USB-A or USB-C. Works just fine anywhere.

> Factories in the EU means workers employed and taxes paid in the EU. It means a lot here.

So I guess going back to the original parent's point: if your company is producing stuff in Europe, proprietary screws are just fine from a consumer point of view. Which kind of confirms everyone's suspicions about EU regulations... they're just foreign company shakedowns under the guise of "protecting the consumer."

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#87

Post by everfrustrated »

blauditore wrote: post #22
transcriptase wrote: post #17

Only dealerships and anyone with a few bucks to spend on Aliexpress once someone bothers making a removal tool.

Yes, that's why I love AliExpress. It evens the playing fieldin such cases, to some degree.

As you're doing the importing not them, that also gets them around ton of legal compliance costs as well.

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#88

Post by phil21 »

georgefrowny wrote: post #54
markus_zhang wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess eventually people will buy the cheapest cars and treat it as a consumer product that breaks down every few years, like a laptop. Or simply find a remote job and rent a car. Welcome to the Dystopian world.

> Guess eventually people will buy the cheapest car It looks like lots of people choose to lease very expensive cars, and give them back after 3 years for a new one, dropping a obsolescence time-bomb onto the second-hand market and providing a strong signal to manufacturers that there is a substantial maintainability-insensitive market segment. I am still surprised that no manufacturer has a balls-out "buy our cars,…

It’s largely a market signal, it seems. I was listening to a podcast with an ex-GM engineer and he said basically the business end is entirely driven by financing vehicles. Very little profit is derived from selling a car itself, nearly all the profit comes from the finance end of the business either on leases or car loans. Americans overall drive cars for a very short period of time before upgrading.

That, coupled with massive consumer preference for “zero maintenance” vehicles like supposedly not having to change transmission fluid for 100k miles. The manufacturers know that such a schedule will guarantee (more) damage, but it’s considered a marketing expense to handle early failures under warranty but sell the idea your car just needs an oil change every 10k miles and nothing else. After that first owner and warranty period the parts are simply considered a consumable.

If you plan on keeping your car for more than 3-5 years, toss the maintenance schedule handbook in the trash and figure out what an actual reasonable schedule is. It’s probably at minimum double the recommendations are.

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#89

Post by Kirby64 »

arealaccount wrote: post #27
mrweasel wrote: post #13

Great, now I need an extra large bit set. I really don't see the point of this, it won't take a year for that bit to appear on shelves at the local hardware store if people need it. I have bit sets containing ever imaginable "security" bit, security torx are pretty much standard in set now. So are the weird flathead with the middle cut out. You almost can't buy an iFixIt kit without Apples stupid pentalob bit. This i…

I think the schtick is they can block these tools from being sold via trademark infringement. Thats why the BMW logo is in fact necessary

This wouldn’t hold up in court, to my knowledge. If you have a tool that is solely designed this way for technical reasons, then there isnt trademark infringement. Just make sure to market it as the “B” screwdriver or whatever. The same thing with the Nintendo case for their logo on cartridge protection, I don’t think that ever held up in court.

Re: BMW Patents Proprietary Screws That Only Dealerships Can Remove

#90

Post by markus_zhang »

phil21 wrote: post #88
georgefrowny wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Guess eventually people will buy the cheapest car It looks like lots of people choose to lease very expensive cars, and give them back after 3 years for a new one, dropping a obsolescence time-bomb onto the second-hand market and providing a strong signal to manufacturers that there is a substantial maintainability-insensitive market segment. I am still surprised that no manufacturer has a balls-out "buy our cars,…

It’s largely a market signal, it seems. I was listening to a podcast with an ex-GM engineer and he said basically the business end is entirely driven by financing vehicles. Very little profit is derived from selling a car itself, nearly all the profit comes from the finance end of the business either on leases or car loans. Americans overall drive cars for a very short period of time before upgrading. That, coupled w…

Just curious how does one figure out the real maintenance schedule? I own a Tucson 2020 and plan to buy a Honda or Toyota in a couple of years.
Post reply on HN