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The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

thompson2026.com

81–90 of 179 posts

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don‘t need fraudsters just a run of the mill bully is enough. I remember a phase in my life where I had to do some high visibility reporting. I showed all underlying facts, methodology and conclusions and every week the bully tore into a minor detail devaluing my work and distracting from vital tasks. Only when I started shielding data and my reasoning as private and just delivering high level summary results I w…

Not wishing to join the bully's side, but I think making something private to prevent discussion/criticism has a bad smell about it. It's possible (to someone who knows neither you nor the bully) that the bully had some valid suggestions and that you became over defensive in allowing that to become a distraction rather than saying something like "okay, but can you make these suggestions after the meeting and we can w…

Well, it's a judgment call. Is this critic operating in good faith, or not? The reporter is not necessarily in the best position to judge. On the other hand, they have the best grasp of all the details of the interaction with this (alleged) bully.

"You don't want continuing abuse" is quite different from "you don't want feedback".

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#82
post #14
post #3

I disagree What really matters is judiciary due process and the legitimacy of a government. Companies are the ones gathering data, it's not the government doing it. Before the internet, governments already had data on their citizens. The internet makes it more difficult for the government to catch criminals and fraudsters. If you live in Russia or China or under Trump's administration, there are good reasons to hide.…

Could you post your internet browsing history there, please? Don't be short on details.

[dead]

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#83
post #79

My "importance of privacy" story: I get my gas and electricity from Scottish Power. Recently a rival company, Ovo Energy made a clerical error and sent me a bill, leading to a dispute. The front line of defence against this kind of dispute is that the bills give the serial numbers of the meters. The bill from Scottish Power gives the same meter serial numbers that are embossed on the front of my meters, and is theref…

Where is your contract with Ovo Energy? Companies cannot just go charge random people willy-nilly like that.

You have missed the point of the story. GP is not a customer of Ovo energy. They sent him a bill in error.

“Companies cannot just go charge random people”

And yet they do. Anyone can send anyone a bill.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#84
post #54

Ok so this "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument is so recurrent I once went looking where it came from. The oldest account I found is in a religious book from 1832 [1]: "We must have nothing to hide, nothing to fear", but, and this is the important bit, this is in the context of your relationship with Christ. Later accounts are mostly from judicial documents like "well tell us what happened, if you have nothin…

It's older than 1832; for example: "He who trembles at this moment is guilty. For innocence never trembles before public vigilance." Maximilien Robespierre, July 26 (8 Thermidor), 1794 (translated - the original would be in French). When it is used by surveillance advocates, they don't use the exact words.

Incidentally here is that quote, with Ian Richardson as Robespierre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOW6OfeOW10

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#85
Certainly there are many who use privacy to safely be opposed to things. Being in a database having some characteristic means you are selectable for that and therefore targetable for it. And there is a herd immunity in that if everyone is in a database but you, being absent from it is as good as being in it with the characteristic of “opted out of this information” and therefore everyone being private protects the ones who most need privacy. All of this is sound.

In many ways, I have lived my life in a way opposite to this. My genome is public, many of my life affairs are public[0], and I have had a child in a manner[1] that many people[2] have expressed antipathy for. It is entirely possible, perhaps even likely that my family and I will face consequences for this. I won’t pretend I have nothing to fear.

So why do it? Perhaps it’s worth looking at others who have done the same. Being gay in America was a great risk once. The mechanism of defence in that society was for homosexual people to operate in what we now call the “don’t ask; don’t tell” environment. By having a general taboo about discussing sexual identity in certain contexts it was possible for gay people to not be threatened. If you didn’t know anyone’s sexual identity how could you harm the homosexuals among them?

Why then did gay people decide to abandon the safety of privacy and push for public acceptance? Do they regret this new world where many gay people are known to be gay? I think that as a whole, those who are gay prefer to live in this society of open acceptance than that society of private tolerance.

I won’t pretend that all places in the world are like this. I would be much more hesitant to do this in the country of my birth: India. And even California’s checkered history with gay marriage is outmatched by, say, the Netherlands.

So it’s not risk-free to be public, but sometimes it’s worth it. In our case, I think humanity stands to benefit greatly from modern biotechnology. I think many people who would previously struggle to have children or who may fear passing on some disease can now safely have children. I think this is very important.

And I think I would rather we defend the medicine required for this in law and legislation (like GINA) than that we silently and privately tolerate it. My wife and I are normal people. My daughter so far is healthy and I pray she grows up and lives as such. I want you to know that this is what this technology is for: normal people to increase the chance they will have healthy children.

That’s why I’m public. Not because I have nothing to hide. But that I think it’s sometimes worthwhile to say “I could have hidden this but I would prefer for it to be publicly accepted”.

0: on my blog you will see a pregnancy log, and an IVF log, and pre-implantation screening results

1: we sequenced every embryo and chose one unaffected by the condition we share

2: from right wing non-profits to members of this forum or normal people reading the news, examples to follow

https://www.liveaction.org/news/reproductive-startup-sequenc... (Inaccurate accusation here - the third was aneuploid)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2025/07/16/orchid-... (Scroll down to see us - click comments to see the overwhelming opposition but with gratifyingly some support)

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#86
post #79

My "importance of privacy" story: I get my gas and electricity from Scottish Power. Recently a rival company, Ovo Energy made a clerical error and sent me a bill, leading to a dispute. The front line of defence against this kind of dispute is that the bills give the serial numbers of the meters. The bill from Scottish Power gives the same meter serial numbers that are embossed on the front of my meters, and is theref…

Where is your contract with Ovo Energy? Companies cannot just go charge random people willy-nilly like that.

You just read a story of a company doing just that

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#87
post #42

When people say they have nothing to hide I like to remind them about fraud and criminals. All law abiding citizens have data that they want to hide from fraudsters. Fraudsters often get their hands on government data through breeches and bribery. Also fraudsters pretend to be government agents to get data from big tech companies. So any channel that governments use to get data from tech companies is abused by frauds…

> All law abiding citizens have data that they want to hide from fraudsters.

Nobody is completely law avoiding when the books of laws and regulations get thick enough. Especially if the government decides to take an interest in you.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5860250

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#88
"nothing to hide, nothing to fear" is trivially disproved.

Humans arrive at conclusions about other humans based on information. Sometimes these conclusions are incorrect because humans aren't perfect at reasoning and this happens more often with some kinds of information.

Therefore, it's perfectly rational to hide/not-disclose/obscure some information to lessen the chance that others take action based on faulty conclusions.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#89
Am I the only one who doesn't take this statement literally and immediately extrapolate it to all aspects of an individual's existence? "I have nothing to hide" is a broad statement that clearly encompasses "everything", but it's often said in the context of a specific thing that a person doesn't care about.

Those of you who would ask someone for financial information after they say this, would you also say "it's hot out side" if they described something as cool during the summer?

Ultimately, given the complexity of security, expecting there to be some cultural shift on privacy is silly unless it's made trivially easy. We can't get people to eat right, exercise, or control their screen time and social media use and all of those have more immediate and tangible consequences.

I appreciate the message, but I don't think the call to action is practical.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Ice agents are deporting people in the US that are here illegally. How would anybody know that if they aren't allowed hearings?

I saw that comment before it was flagged and thanks to that I now have this argument that you supplied. if I arrived a couple minutes later I wouldn't know it. (I browsed logged out)

I disagree with that guy but I don't know it should be flagged

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