Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals • Hacker News Board

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#81

Post by everfrustrated » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 4:47 PM UTC

sct202 wrote: post #74

probably_wrong wrote: post #5

As far as I understand this is the latest shot in the conflict between Spain and its lack of affordable housing. I'd put the symbolic start around 2004-2006 [1] with the movement called "you won't have a house in your fucking life" where people all over Spain started demonstrating against high apartment prices. I don't like AirBnB and I'm glad they got fined, but the Spanish government also needs to accept that they…

They've been expanding their airports over those 20 years; Barcelona's passenger air arrivals has doubled in that time and there is another expansion being planned. Barcelona is not a large city and they should really be coupling every airport capacity increase with an equal increase in tourist accommodations or they end up in an even worse situation.

Spain's airports are quite interesting. They're all owned by a monopoly which sets the same landing fee to land at any airport. So high volume airports are effectively cross subsiding building very good airports in the smaller regional areas.

Not great for prices (Ryanair is complaining about high landing fees) but it does mean tourists have a good job being dispersed into the countryside and having a good experience.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#82

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 4:49 PM UTC

thayne wrote: post #76

showsover wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you get to feel like a local and experience life in another place. Yes, if your local life is being inconsiderate and having parties till 3 because you're on holidays. Having an airbnb in your building is terrible as you don't know the people and they don't care about getting to know you. > Hotels suck…

> if your local life is being inconsiderate and having parties till 3 because you're on holidays I would expect that to be the minority of visitors. I certainly don't do that when I stay in Airbnbs. > The biggest problem here in Barcelona is that most airbnbs / short term rentals are companies buying housing as an investment and so are stealing the opportunity from actual people and families trying to live. Sure, the…

Tourists don't vote, residents do, and even if short term rentals were outlawed, Barcelona and Madrid would remain tourist hotspots (as they were before short term rentals).

Certainly, there is a tug of war between tourist dollars vs negative tourist impact, but this math is a function of how impactful tourist decline (if any) would occur by pushing out short term rentals. Hotels always remain an option. Real estate and politics are local, as the sayings go. AirBnB pushed negative externalities on local jurisdictions to achieve their valuation and economic success ("socialize the losses, privatize the gains"), and these efforts are just pushing them back in some form. Tourists should remember that they are guests in the places that host them, and it is a privilege to be hosted.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#83

Post by daedrdev » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 4:50 PM UTC

embedding-shape wrote: post #77

daedrdev wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it ruins the future market. People with a rent controlled unit will not leave even when they should, because they have it so good. Thus turnover never happens, which is why most programs have a waiting lists easily more than a decade. Like it helps those who have one at a greater expense to renters without one

Limiting rent increase does not mean "Rent can never change", it just means the rate of change is limited. Owners can still raise the prices each year, it's just limited based on a lot of factors, the main one being a local index. But renovating the property for example lets owners raise the rent higher, as just one exception. > People with a rent controlled unit will not leave even when they should, because they hav…

People with high incomes living alone in multi bedroom units objectively should leave.

The “right to housing” is a joke when the US essentially makes it illegal to build new units in most areas.

Because of that restriction, rent control causes the small number of limited units to be subsided by everyone else paying more, as basic supply and demand dictates

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#84

Post by yardie » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 4:51 PM UTC

boblawbomb wrote: post #7

[flagged]

> the idea of the government telling people how to use private property doesn't sit well

Between zoning, easements, nuisance laws, government has a lot of say in how you use your private property. Owners even stepped it up a notch and invited HOAs, a quasi-government that has even more say about your property.

Unfortunately, people love telling their neighbors how they should live.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#85

Post by somewhereoutth » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 4:51 PM UTC

seer wrote: post #52

dvt wrote: post #22

This is not just a problem in Spain. Affordable housing is a problem in almost every Western metro, both in the US and in Europe. The problem is caused by the financialization of real estate. I know it's always been a bit of a financial asset, but the past 40 years have really seen this accelerate to pretty crazy levels. The issue, when you boil it down to the basics is: wealthy folks, development companies, overseas…

I don’t think that is the only solution. I like what Singapore is doing - having a government built “base level” of housing that is both abundant and readily available - it can anchor the price where deep excesses are harder to end up with. It’s like a market where a very significant player keeps the price law, because of its own reasons. In such a scenario the price will not go up as sharply, so there would be less…

Yes - in the UK we had a strong social housing sector, with award winning architecture (and some terrible mistakes too).

Then along came 'right-to-buy', allowing tenants to buy their social housing for knock down prices (and so become a natural Tory [right of centre party] voter).

If councils had been allowed to use the money to build more social housing, then maybe this was fine. But they were not. So now we have affordability issues in the UK too.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#86

Post by tclancy » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 4:54 PM UTC

thayne wrote: post #76

showsover wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you get to feel like a local and experience life in another place. Yes, if your local life is being inconsiderate and having parties till 3 because you're on holidays. Having an airbnb in your building is terrible as you don't know the people and they don't care about getting to know you. > Hotels suck…

> if your local life is being inconsiderate and having parties till 3 because you're on holidays I would expect that to be the minority of visitors. I certainly don't do that when I stay in Airbnbs. > The biggest problem here in Barcelona is that most airbnbs / short term rentals are companies buying housing as an investment and so are stealing the opportunity from actual people and families trying to live. Sure, the…

>I would expect that to be the minority of visitors.

If you share a wall or ceiling or are next door to one, how small would the minority have to be to keep you from being annoyed?

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#87

Post by dariosalvi78 » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 4:56 PM UTC

The main issue with Airbnb is that a few companies own a huge percentage of the flats. It's a big, unregulated, industry without any responsibility that is driving regular hotels out of business and locals out of their neighbouhoods. Of course it has to end at some point.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#88

Post by alfyboy » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

neom wrote: post #73

alfyboy wrote: post #68

I was recently evicted from my apartment in a city in Norway experiencing similar growth in short-term rentals. The rental on that apartment was around €750 (same for my roommate). Apparently, during high season in the winter similar apartments goes for ~€830 a night. High season is 3 months in the winter, but seemingly that is enough to outcompete longterm tenants.

You have no protections against this where you live? That would be near impossible where I live (Ontario).

Unfortunately not due to co-living with the landlord.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#89

Post by NotGMan » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 5:03 PM UTC

AirBnB should be banned, and I say that as a very pro-capitalist guy.

In an economy where there is a housing shortage local population needs affordable and long-term (6-months+) rental contracts or they don't have stability.

Capitalism is great in general, but some things, such as healthcare, housing, electricity,... needs to have a stronger regulatory framework then eg TVs since the collapse of basic human necessities creates chaos and eventually becomes the foothold of extreme socialist/communist political parties which then finish the job of destroying the economy.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#90

Post by subpixel » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 5:07 PM UTC

showsover wrote: post #61

MisterTea wrote: post #55

I was in Spain this past summer and it certainly seems they are experiencing tourist burnout. I saw anti tourist messages on banners hung on buildings, graffiti, posters and stickers in Madrid and Barcelona. Some of it was a bit threatening but I had zero issues. The issue of airbnb is a sticky one. On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you g…

> On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you get to feel like a local and experience life in another place. Yes, if your local life is being inconsiderate and having parties till 3 because you're on holidays. Having an airbnb in your building is terrible as you don't know the people and they don't care about getting to know you. > Hotels suck…

> The biggest problem here in Barcelona is that most airbnbs / short term rentals are companies buying housing as an investment and so are stealing the opportunity from actual people and families trying to live.

This problem exists regardless of who does the buying. Where I live the locals got into the market first. Still, it's a zero-sum game, every short-term rental is a house a family cannot live in and probably cannot afford to buy.

On my street 30% of the houses are short-term rentals. Some rent out for $10k/week just 8 weeks a year and are closed up the rest of the time. My daughter is currently the only kid on the street, which has over 100 houses.

Not only are all the houses now priced as income-producing investments, they are killing the community that used to exist here.