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Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

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Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#81

Post by yebyen »

TylerE wrote: post #70
chucknelson wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always heard that you get a better price if you tell them you're paying in cash...is this just bad info?

Bad info. They make money on the financing, so are likely to be more willing to negotiate on price if they think they will make it back on the financing. Doesn't mean you can't can't _pay_ cash, but 95% of dealers you don't want to be too upfront about that.

Agreed. Which is why you should never tell them you are paying cash upfront, unless you are dealing with an individual seller who obviously might prefer not to work with financing company. They will give you a better deal if they think they can make it up on the financing.

Individual sellers will more likely give favor to cash in hand, at least I know I would rather have cash in hand for my car.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#82

Post by amorphid »

If Tesla encourages one to buy the car at a terminal within the non-dealership, to me that feels like something similar to self help checkout lines at a retailer who offers home delivery. My best guess is that the car dealership law was never intended to cover this.use case, and that both Tesla and the dealer associations should be lobbying to change the law in their favor. I'd hate to rely ok existing law for this one.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#83

Post by AVTizzle »

>>“Anything that gets you to the executed contract is part of the sale,” Bob O’Koniewski, executive vice president of the Massachusetts State Automobile Dealers Association, told the auto industry publication.

When I read this, I couldn't help think of another quote from a 2008 Wired article [1] - ironically on Elon Musk and SpaceX. In it, he shares nails down a guy names John Pike, who predicted doom for SpaceX.

The context is different but the quote works:

>>Wired.com: Your whole mantra is "cheaper and more reliable." But so far you're zero for three, which is anything but cheap and reliable, and guys like GlobalSecurity.org's John Pike say the reason it has taken billions of dollars and tens of thousands of people to successfully launch rockets is physics, not some new design or economic model.

>>Musk: Guys like John Pike have existed since the dawn of time, and if you listen to people like that then things will never get better, never change.

Guys like Bob O’Koniewski have existed since the dawn of time. You can either generate wealth by creating value or seizing and hoarding value. It's clear which side of that dichotomy Elon and Bob each stand, respectively.

[1] http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2008/08/musk_qa

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#84

Post by gallerytungsten »

talmand wrote: post #34
jbigelow76 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't cars be sold just like any other product? Because then they run the risk of getting Amazon'd or Wal-Mart'd.

Why is that a risk? What's wrong with ordering a car from Amazon? Or do you mean it's a risk from the dealers' perspective? Because I get that and personally don't care.

The risk is that a whole bunch of middlemen who don't add much (if any) value would get cut out of the equation. The dealers are well aware that their business model is despised by buyers, hence the forest of protectionist law that they've purchased over the years.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#85

Post by cynicalkane »

cs702 wrote: post #3

Anyone who's ever bought a car knows firsthand how unpleasant it is to deal with traditional car dealers. The price of every vehicle is fully negotiable but the negotiating room is opaque.[1] Key car features and options are bundled in arbitrary packages and priced in ways that make pricing even more opaque. Car salesmen (they're typically men) almost always have a fake smile on their face and come across as smooth-t…

For new cars, there's always YC-backed CarWoo, a no-hassle car buying website: http://carwoo.com/

I haven't tried it, but heard good things. For a lot of brands (especially non-luxury Japanese) new cars are cost-effective right now.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#86

Post by gallerytungsten »

chucknelson wrote: post #64
randomdata wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of enjoyed buying my last vehicle. For some reason, the salesman had it in his mind that I could not afford the one I was looking at. I was the one trying to talk him into adding options, while he was trying to take them away to keep the costs lower. Once I finally talked him into the one I wanted, he, without asking, starts filling out the loan application. I'm like "umm, I'm going to be paying for it in cash…

I've always heard that you get a better price if you tell them you're paying in cash...is this just bad info?

It's better to lead them on, thinking that you are going to finance. Then, when you have a final price, drop the cash bomb. Be ready for some furious attempts to raise the price in a bunch of ways, after that revelation!

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#87

Post by bunderbunder »

TylerE wrote: post #70
chucknelson wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always heard that you get a better price if you tell them you're paying in cash...is this just bad info?

Bad info. They make money on the financing, so are likely to be more willing to negotiate on price if they think they will make it back on the financing. Doesn't mean you can't can't _pay_ cash, but 95% of dealers you don't want to be too upfront about that.

For that matter, even if you can't pay cash you shouldn't get lulled into assuming you have to take the dealer's financing. Shop around a bit, see if you can find a loan where only the bank gets a piece of the pie, instead of both the bank and the dealer. For my last purchase, my credit union gave me about half the rate the dealer offered.

But don't let them know that until they're getting ready to fill out a loan application.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#88

Post by tjmc »

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #59
travisp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under most rankings of economic freedom, the United States barely manages to be in the top 10. The Heritage Foundation places Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Canada, Chile, Mauritius, and Ireland all above the United States on their Index of Economic Freedom. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom

Doesn't Australia have hideously terrible internet regulations? I guess that wouldn't fall under economic freedom...

If you're referring to mandatory filtering no - it never happened. Despite the communications minister announcing it. A large ISP also won a major test case against big media about having to report file sharers. Turns out they dont have to. So right now it's not so bad but I'm waiting for the nanny state to fight back.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#89

Post by astral303 »

cynicalkane wrote: post #85
cs702 wrote: post #3

Anyone who's ever bought a car knows firsthand how unpleasant it is to deal with traditional car dealers. The price of every vehicle is fully negotiable but the negotiating room is opaque.[1] Key car features and options are bundled in arbitrary packages and priced in ways that make pricing even more opaque. Car salesmen (they're typically men) almost always have a fake smile on their face and come across as smooth-t…

For new cars, there's always YC-backed CarWoo, a no-hassle car buying website: http://carwoo.com/ I haven't tried it, but heard good things. For a lot of brands (especially non-luxury Japanese) new cars are cost-effective right now.

Dealers generally hate sites like CarWoo and TrueCar:

http://forum.dealerrefresh.com/f46/carwoo-anyone-2746.html

Search that forum for lots of lovely language from the dealers about those two. TrueCar is particularly despised.

There is some positive feedback from dealers about CarWoo though, more so than TrueCar, so perhaps they figured out a thing or two better.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#90

Post by SoftwareMaven »

chucknelson wrote: post #64
randomdata wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of enjoyed buying my last vehicle. For some reason, the salesman had it in his mind that I could not afford the one I was looking at. I was the one trying to talk him into adding options, while he was trying to take them away to keep the costs lower. Once I finally talked him into the one I wanted, he, without asking, starts filling out the loan application. I'm like "umm, I'm going to be paying for it in cash…

I've always heard that you get a better price if you tell them you're paying in cash...is this just bad info?

It's a trade-off. For many people who don't understand how to figure out interest rates and payments, it gives the dealerships one more number to play with to hide the real price of the car. As others have mentioned, if you do understand it and can decipher it, it gives another place for them to make money.
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