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Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

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Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#81

Post by missedthecue »

throw310822 wrote: post #69
missedthecue wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they have very extreme opinions about the Ukraine situation that they make very clear at every EU parliament meeting.

Can you point me to some examples? I have not followed closely but it seems that Ireland is on the same page as the other EU states in regards to supporting Ukraine. I'm also curious about what you consider a "very extreme opinion" to be in this regard.

Here is a specific example where an Irish MEP specifically speaks against sanctions on Russia and against NATO donating any weapons to Ukraine in front of the EU parliament.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpieZnTQorQ

Here is a different Irish MEP saying similar things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo1tgWr0KXI

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#82

Post by throw310822 »

missedthecue wrote: post #81
throw310822 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point me to some examples? I have not followed closely but it seems that Ireland is on the same page as the other EU states in regards to supporting Ukraine. I'm also curious about what you consider a "very extreme opinion" to be in this regard.

Here is a specific example where an Irish MEP specifically speaks against sanctions on Russia and against NATO donating any weapons to Ukraine in front of the EU parliament. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpieZnTQorQ Here is a different Irish MEP saying similar things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo1tgWr0KXI

They are two MPs, they can say whatever they want. Sadly they don't reflect the position of Ireland, and I hope you are not trying to say that Ireland or Europe should abolish their internal democracy.

I say "sadly" because they're perfectly right. Daly: "the more arms you pump into Ukraine, the more the war will be prolonged, and the more Ukrainians will die [...] We will sit down with Russia, there will be a negotiated peace and this organisation should promote it earlier".

She said this three years ago: in the meanwhile hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians have died, Ukraine has lost its territory anyway, we are sitting down with Russia and there is going to be a negotiated peace, and Europe is not part of it because it was never able to promote any diplomacy. Time proved her right on all points.

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#83

Post by TMWNN »

whenc wrote: post #13
beezlewax wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notably thousands of Irish soldiers did fight the Germans in WW2 but via joining the British Army... an act that was frowned upon at the times. Many were killed.

And when they came back, they were blacklisted by order of the government: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16287211

I had heard of the blacklist, but thought that it was for those who deserted the Irish military to join the British. Punishing deserters is understandable, no matter the motive.

That said, if I understand the article correctly, those who did this were punished worse than deserters who did not go fight?!?

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#84

Post by TMWNN »

tim333 wrote: post #65
Spooky23 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was a tiny, broke, agrarian country just out of a civil war that was still simmering going to do about the Nazis? They had a well-justified disdain for being pulled into the British orbit. They chose neutrality. Do you hold Switzerland and Sweden to the same standard? If Britain were to join in a conflict with Russia over Ukraine, would you expect Indian soldiers to rally to the cause of their former King and Co…

Dunno about deserting to join the Ukrainian army but they seem ok with leaving the US military and joining the Ukrainian army. See Malcolm Nance for example.

Nance had been retired from the US military for two decades when he joined the Ukrainian military.

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#85

Post by dingaling »

culi wrote: post #56
TulliusCicero wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ireland literally has a policy of relying on the UK to defend them.

I assume you're referring to the 1952 agreement that the RAF is allowed to intercept unidentified or hostile aircraft in Irish airspace? That's because the UK does not want Ireland to have an army. Ireland has a long history of standing with Native Americans, Palestinians, and other groups facing colonization. They even have a military base in Lebanon and a very long standing partnership with Hezbollah (Hezbollah was…

> Ireland having any sort of military

> capacities would directly contradict

> UK military interests.

Contradicted by the fact that the Irish military forces were entirely equipped with UK-supplied aircraft and vehicles until the 1960s, at which point Ireland turned towards France instead.

The UK never intervened to prevent Ireland acquiring any weapon system, in contrast it was Irish budget frugality that consistently undermined the military.

At present Ireland is considering the purchase of Gripen interceptors, and the UK seems at worst indifferent and probably actually quite relieved.

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#86

Post by Lio »

throw310822 wrote: post #58
dralley wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? The very distance involved and difficulty of such an invasion is precisely why resistance is extremely plausible and not being able to do so is indefensible. Even a "token" amount of resistance makes it exponentially more difficult. You would certainly have been the type of person whining about how Ukraine was doomed to fall in a matter of hours under the incredible size and capability of the Russian military.…

> The very distance involved and difficulty of such an invasion is precisely why resistance is extremely plausible Not to mention the possibility of an invasion from Australia. They should prepare against that, too! See, the whole premise of this discussion is completely absurd: there is no threat whatsoever by Russia to Ireland. There's a narrative that gets pushed more every day that Europe is under threat from Rus…

Perhaps you missed the confirmed Russian spy boat surveying cables going into Dublin?

They’re not doing that because they want to give out free hugs.

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2024/1115/1481145-russian-...

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#87

Post by beezlewax »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #15
beezlewax wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notably thousands of Irish soldiers did fight the Germans in WW2 but via joining the British Army... an act that was frowned upon at the times. Many were killed.

I don't dispute that there are many brave individual Irish people of course, but in terms of the country as a whole in matters of policy...

You were about to refer to a specific policy you disagreed with or...?

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#88

Post by tim333 »

throw310822 wrote: post #32
TulliusCicero wrote: post #6

100% agreed with this article. The whole idea of Ireland's supposed neutrality is a farce. Does anyone really think that if a country like Russia decided to full-on invade Ireland, other European nations would just shrug it off? Of course not, and the Irish are well aware of that and rely on it (already they explicitly rely on the UK to help defend their country as a matter of policy). So really it's a simple hypocri…

If Russia decided to full-on invade Ireland, a country of 4.5 million (as completely absurd as this idea is, being Ireland where it is) having its own military would not help Ireland- it should better capitulate quickly to limit damage.

Ireland mostly managed to kick out the British.

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#89

Post by throw310822 »

Lio wrote: post #86
throw310822 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The very distance involved and difficulty of such an invasion is precisely why resistance is extremely plausible Not to mention the possibility of an invasion from Australia. They should prepare against that, too! See, the whole premise of this discussion is completely absurd: there is no threat whatsoever by Russia to Ireland. There's a narrative that gets pushed more every day that Europe is under threat from Rus…

Perhaps you missed the confirmed Russian spy boat surveying cables going into Dublin? They’re not doing that because they want to give out free hugs. https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2024/1115/1481145-russian-...

A closely surveilled Russian vessel that was briefly seen several kms away from undersea cables. Meanwhile, the only confirmed hostile act against European infrastructure was the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipelines, and the perpetrators were our "allies", Ukraine and the US.

Re: Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

#90

Post by TheGuyWhoCodes »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #7
osiris970 wrote: post #5

Ireland having 0 military capabilities, and being completely dependent on NATO, while being extremely opinionated, on how and what NATO does, always irked me deeply.

Ireland nobly took a stand against fighting the Nazis in WW2, and they've been similarly brave ever since.

They also offered condolences to the Nazis when Hitler offed himself.
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