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A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

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Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#81

Post by philipkglass »

Bender wrote: post #56

Theoretically speaking how much would the components cost if one made it themselves? [1][2] My interests are purely academic as I have no need for this . [1] - https://fourthievesvinegar.org/ [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rQklSmI_F0 [video][1hr16m][DEFCON 32]

According to another comment this product is pure 1-(perfluorohexyl)octane [1]. There's no practical way to make it at home, but it can be had for $980-$750/kg from an industrial supplier, depending on how many kilograms you commit to buy at once:

https://www.chemicalbook.com/ProductDetail_EN_1-perfluorohex...

Add analytical lab services to analyze it for purity and you could still get a lifetime supply for the price of a couple of brand-name bottles. This is the sort of thing that some Americans have been doing to get cheap GLP-1 peptide drugs from overseas too.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorohexyloctane

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#82

Post by henrikschroder »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #57
xnorswap wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best thing about universal healthcare isn't how much money I may or may not have to pay, it's that I literally don't once have to think about a bill or filling out a form to avoid paying too much. I wouldn't care if I ended up paying more in tax than I would in an insurance model. The benefit is being able to 100% focus on my health instead of navigating a system to try to reduce what I'm paying. When you're diag…

[flagged]

And yet, the average American pays more in taxes for public healthcare (medicare, medicaid) that they don't receive any of, than the average European pays in taxes for (some kind of) universal healthcare.

It's so bizarre seeing Americans in the debate not wanting "crazy high taxes like in Europe", because the US already spends twice as much public money per capita as the OECD average.

The dirty secret of course is that healthcare as a good is much more expensive to produce in the US than elsewhere, and a large chunk of that is because the private insurance system adds a ton of unnecessary overhead. And yet all the healthcare insurance companies in the US talk about making healthcare "affordable for all". Yeah, no, they're leeches. They're rent-seekers. They drive up the cost of everything.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#83

Post by actionfromafar »

Bender wrote: post #56

Theoretically speaking how much would the components cost if one made it themselves? [1][2] My interests are purely academic as I have no need for this . [1] - https://fourthievesvinegar.org/ [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rQklSmI_F0 [video][1hr16m][DEFCON 32]

About 30 years in federal prison, probably.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#85

Post by BeetleB »

oakesm9 wrote: post #68
BeetleB wrote: post #29

If Americans didn't pay $800 for it, how would Europeans afford it?

Such an easily debunkable line with even the tiniest bit of critical thinking. You’re basically saying the drug companies subsidise a loss in Europe by over charging Americans, right? As the drug company is a private and doesn’t have to sell everywhere, why wouldn’t they just skip the loss making Europeans and just sell to Americans? They’d make more profit that way! That must mean they make some profit from the Euro…

Chill dude. I added a tag.

But to engage seriously:

> You’re basically saying the drug companies subsidise a loss in Europe by over charging Americans, right?

No - once they know how to manufacture a drug, it's dirt cheap for them to do so - they're still making a profit in Europe. The purpose of billing Americans a huge amount (other than they can get away with it), is to fund the research + trials for the next generation of drugs.

Of course, even this argument doesn't hold water. I remember when pharmaceuticals spent more on advertising/marketing than on R&D (may still be the case).

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#86

Post by trollbridge »

yunwal wrote: post #66
zuppy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what about the poor people? the ones that can't really afford insurance. i've heard multiple times that epipen prices are crazy expensive and that's a really basic drug.

If you're poor you just wait until you're borderline dying and then go to the E.R. and get charged $120,000 and then never pay it and then have debt collectors calling you for the rest of your life. Or you're on Medicaid if you live in a sane state.

Medicaid is available in all 50 states.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#87

Post by actionfromafar »

dotancohen wrote: post #53
terminalshort wrote: post #43

If a drug isn't one of the following it should be available over the counter. 1. heinously addictive 2. incredibly dangerous when not used exactly correctly 3. an antibiotic (due to the resistance externality) And for drugs that do meet one of these conditions, doctors should be able to write lifetime prescriptions for cases where the medication is used to treat a permanent condition. This probably covers 95% of non-…

Then who would feed the gatekeepers?

How does it go?

"First, they came for the gatekeepers. Then, they came for the billionaires."

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#88

Post by trollbridge »

zuppy wrote: post #42
Aurornis wrote: post #8

FYI for anyone who isn't familiar with the wacky US insurance situation: Nobody in the US actually pays $800 for the drug. That's the "list price" for insurance companies to pay. Even insurance companies don't pay that price because they negotiate their own rates with the drug companies, which are lower. Then the drug companies come in and offer a "savings card" which you apply at the pharmacy like another layer of i…

what about the poor people? the ones that can't really afford insurance. i've heard multiple times that epipen prices are crazy expensive and that's a really basic drug.

I got my last Epi-Pen for free, since in my state Medicaid has no copay for prescriptions or else it's $2 or $3.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#89

Post by gensym »

oakesm9 wrote: post #68
BeetleB wrote: post #29

If Americans didn't pay $800 for it, how would Europeans afford it?

Such an easily debunkable line with even the tiniest bit of critical thinking. You’re basically saying the drug companies subsidise a loss in Europe by over charging Americans, right? As the drug company is a private and doesn’t have to sell everywhere, why wouldn’t they just skip the loss making Europeans and just sell to Americans? They’d make more profit that way! That must mean they make some profit from the Euro…

Drug costs are dominated by the fixed costs of development. $20/dose may very well cover the marginal cost of production while being far too little to make the overall venture profitable.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#90

Post by actionfromafar »

philip1209 wrote: post #38

What's to stop congress from passing a blanket "most favored nation" law for VA + medicare on all pricing, inclusive of insurance rates and discounts? Seems like it would be fair and useful.

Trump already lowered costs of medicine by 1200%, what more do you want?

We're gonna be so rich!

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