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Django 6

docs.djangoproject.com

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81–90 of 192 posts

Re: Django 6

#81

Post by dmux »

wg0 wrote: post #13

Can someone remind me how we ended up in the SPA era and why exactly? Was it about not seeing the loading spinner? Or there were more reasons to it?

In my experience it's boiled down to the type of data you're working with. Building nested, tree-like structures and then submitting that structure to the back-end as one request is more easily done via the front-end than a bunch of back-and-forth requests followed up by a "commit" request.

edit: I suppose this is different concern than a true SPA, but as another sibling comment points out, its just a matter of time before routing makes its way into the front-end as well.

Re: Django 6

#82

Post by haolez »

atomicnumber3 wrote: post #50
gnulinux996 wrote: post #40

What is the Java equivalent of Django? I really love django and everything around it, but I would also like to write a webapp in Java. Getting django + rest_framework up and running and actually be productive takes me max 10 minutes, trying to do the same with spring boot I am a week in and I had to open the jakarta specs to understand the magic.

Java honestly just does not have this. By the time java collectively decided that being able to spend your time writing your actual product instead of fucking with config shit forever, the age of the monolithic SSR templated backend app were gone. So now most modern things like helidon focus on being microservicey like go, or they have very soft template rendering offerings and don't really do batteries included. I f…

Isn't there Thymeleaf that alleviates that?

Re: Django 6

#83

Post by sergiotapia »

Django needs a marketing push. I opened the website and immediately it smells like a 2011 web framework. Like CakePHP. Like Zend. Like Kohana.

The site makes the project feel extremely dated, which of course I have no idea how true that is, I've never used Django! Just my 2c from an outsider.

I compare it to Phoenix and Rails. (again, talking PURELY marketing here dudes!)

https://www.phoenixframework.org/

https://rubyonrails.org/

Re: Django 6

#84

Post by JodieBenitez »

cl42 wrote: post #58

> Background Tasks. Amazing. If this means no more management of Celery workers, then I am so happy! So nice to have this directly built _into_ Django, especially for very simple task scheduling.

Background tasks production backend is unfortunately the battery that is not included.

Meanwhile, Huey works just fine: https://huey.readthedocs.io/en/latest/django.html

Re: Django 6

#85

Post by Chiron1991 »

BowBun wrote: post #74
Chiron1991 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CSP is literally in this release, and background workers are intentionally not part of Django because you usually want to offload tasks to other nodes so your CPU can keep serving HTTP requests. Edit: Background tasks for light work are also included in this release.

My point was that these features that are considered new and exciting have been standard in Rails for many, many years. There are many _other_ features that Django still lacks! I don't understand your point about the workers, since you argue it doesn't belong in Django, but then in your edit mention they have been added. To be clear I'm talking about a worker abstraction, not actually running the workers pods themsel…

You said "that Django still lacks". Django no longer lacks CSP and background tasks.

Regarding my edit, you need to differentiate between different types of jobs. Sending an email is okay to do in process. Other (mostly async) Python web frameworks have implemented this, so the Django team probably felt compelled to offer the same. Processing a user-uploaded file is much more expensive and shouldn't be done in the web process. If enough users upload files you're starving your workers for CPU.

Re: Django 6

#86

Post by stanislavb »

Genego wrote: post #73

Django has been one of the biggest reasons why web development has been so enjoyable to me. Whenever I switched to something else, I just felt too spoiled by everything that Django gives you. So I always ended up back with Django, and have no regrets at all specializing deep down that path.

Have you tried Ruby on Rails. That's my experience with Rails. Everytime I've tried something else (for web dev), I just felt too spoiled with Ruby & Rails and went back. This includes Django and Phoenix (Elixir).

Edit: The only thing that Rails lacks is a decent Admin UI included as part of Rails. I know that there are some external gems that can be used, yet that's something that should be part of the framework in my opinion.

Re: Django 6

#87

Post by jorl17 »

Muromec wrote: post #79
wg0 wrote: post #13

Can someone remind me how we ended up in the SPA era and why exactly? Was it about not seeing the loading spinner? Or there were more reasons to it?

>Or there were more reasons to it? Internet was slower in both latency and throughput is one reason. The other is general tendency to separate things into smaller pieces. Faster feedback to user is the third. Consider a typical form with 10 fields in django. You define the schema on a backend, some validation here and there, a db lookup and form-level rules (if this field is entered, make the other field optional). T…

> Then somebody funds an RCE in server components.

I'd say they found it, but I love the conspiracy theory :D :D :D

Re: Django 6

#88

Post by scotty79 »

Genego wrote: post #73

Django has been one of the biggest reasons why web development has been so enjoyable to me. Whenever I switched to something else, I just felt too spoiled by everything that Django gives you. So I always ended up back with Django, and have no regrets at all specializing deep down that path.

Never understood the appeal. I started with the web before there were any frameworks, in PHP, and Django was always very meh.

Re: Django 6

#89

Post by frio »

gnulinux996 wrote: post #40

What is the Java equivalent of Django? I really love django and everything around it, but I would also like to write a webapp in Java. Getting django + rest_framework up and running and actually be productive takes me max 10 minutes, trying to do the same with spring boot I am a week in and I had to open the jakarta specs to understand the magic.

I'm not sure why people aren't saying Spring Boot, but Spring Boot. Yeah it has heaps of other batteries included, and it doesn't have a built-in admin, but it gives you pretty decent stuff out of the box

Re: Django 6

#90

Post by esperent »

sergiotapia wrote: post #83

Django needs a marketing push. I opened the website and immediately it smells like a 2011 web framework. Like CakePHP. Like Zend. Like Kohana. The site makes the project feel extremely dated, which of course I have no idea how true that is, I've never used Django! Just my 2c from an outsider. I compare it to Phoenix and Rails. (again, talking PURELY marketing here dudes!) https://www.phoenixframework.org/ https://rub…

I used Django for a project a couple of years ago. Of course, there's a lot to learn. But generally I found that everything makes sense and I was able to build a moderately complex site with user accounts within a reasonable time. Work took me in different directions, but if a project came up I'd use it again, no problem.

Last year I taught myself Next.js for a project. Everyone would say that's a modern framework, with a modern website. I already know React, I'm quite familiar with prisma.js. Learning and using it was (and is, because now I have to maintain the project) painful, confusing, and full of footguns. I wanted to host on Cloudflare but half the stuff doesn't work so I'm forced into Vercel. Takes ages to understand how images work, how server side works, and so on, and those things are still confusing to me. Constantly I ran into tricky problem about getting data to a client side component, or server side, because some UI library wasn't server side or something like that. Even getting the two fonts I'd chosen into a client side component took me several hours! And I still felt like the solution I came up with was hacky and fighting against the framework.

I regret learning the "modern" framework. I don't regret learning Django. Don't let fancy marketing fool you into using a bad tool, or drive you away from a good one.

Don't judge a web framework by it's website.

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