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The web runs on tolerance

shkspr.mobi

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Re: The web runs on tolerance

#81

Post by edent »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #74
tclancy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> technical issues and social issues really don't mix I don’t think that’s true in the least. I think it’s true there are no technical solutions to social problems, but any and all technology comes from people forming societies and seeking solutions. This comment feels the same as people saying “Stick to sports” about athletes talking politics. Everything is political. If you don’t think something is, it tends to be…

> Everything is political This is such a tedious worldview Maybe everything is political, but it doesn't have to be that way

"there are only:

Two races: white and "political" Two genders: Male and "political" Two hair styles for women: long and "political" Two sexualities: straight and "political" Two body types: normative and "political"

https://twitter.com/emmahvossen/status/1138841342921060354?l...

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#82

Post by curtisblaine »

This article is a prime example of false equivalence. The cool thing about false equivalence is that, when you throw the laws of logic out of the window, you can prove pretty much everything. Anyone can write a specular article proving that intolerance is actually good since very stricter programming languages (like Rust and its borrow checker) are inherently safer.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#83

Post by socalgal2 »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #37
sebular wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Open the console on l any mediocre webpage and you’ll see a stream of JavaScript errors. But it’s still working. One script crashes? Doesn’t matter to any other script. Unhandled exception? Rest of the app is still working fine. Hell, that button may work if you just click it again. And CSS syntax error causing only that single line of code to be ignored while every other line of code works fine is the very…

All that is very good. But as a back end guy dabbling in front end, it would be more welcoming if JS was a little intuitive. I'm very thankful for LLMs now helping with that a bit, but honestly even they seem to fail at JS more so than other languages, at least in my experience so far.

I don't know if my experience is any guide but for me, coming from C++, I hated JS (~2008 is when my job required it). I kept trying to use it as C++. Over time I learned to love it. I stopped trying to make it C++ (or Java/C#, etc...) and actually embraced it.

Now the tables have turned (to some degree). I can write programs in JS in 1-3 days that take weeks or months in C++/C#/Java

Some of this comes from the browser environment. I get portable 2d/3d/gpu graphics, portable audio, image loading, video playback, and complex text rendering and layout, portably and for free. Back in C++/C# land, every new project is a chore of setup and fighting with linkers and build options etc. I post some code in a github repo with github pages on, or in some JS playground like codepen, and instantly share it with all friends regardless of platform.

Another comes from the language itself. I can often generically wrap existing APIs in a few lines of codes, things that used to take days and/or large program refactors to do in C/C++.

And, the tools are pretty good, Chrome DevTools are as good or better than my experience in C/C++. Right now, when I try to debug in C++ in XCode, std::string shows nothing and containers are inscrutable. I'm sure that's fixable. The point is, I shouldn't have to fix basic stuff.

Now of course I'm using TypeScript for some projects and the types help but I'm often glad for the escape hatch for more generic code. It takes me 15 mins to write some generic system in JS and then 2-4hrs to figure out how to get TypeScript happy to type it. As an example, a function that creates a new TypedArray of the same type as some src array. Easy to write in JS. Harder to type in TS. That's effectively part of the same issues I have in C++, the part that stalls progress, that I don't have the escape hatch for generic solutions.

PS: Yes, it's not that hard to type a generic TypedArray function in TS. But it's certainly a learning curve, or was before LLMs, and I've had to type much more complex functions that required no typing in JS

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#84

Post by anal_reactor »

didgetmaster wrote: post #7

This guy lost me when he started talking about diversity issues instead of tech. I couldn't care less about the race, gender, or sexual orientation of the person(s) who created the hardware or software that I use. Does it work? Is it easy to understand and use? These are the things I am interested in. I am reminded of an early cartoon of a dog sitting at a computer saying 'On the Internet, no one knows you are a dog!…

> I couldn't care less about the race, gender, or sexual orientation of the person(s) who created the hardware or software that I use.

That's exactly the message that some people tried to push during the heyday of wokeism but the rest wouldn't listen.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#85

Post by mvdtnz »

edent wrote: post #26
lone-cloud wrote: post #16

When I finished reading it I thought it was an anti-Trump piece, but the author also wrote: "That's why it baffles me that some prominent technologists embrace hateful ideologies.". Was Trump a techie too? He must have been behind the creation of JS. "The ARM processor which powers the modern world was co-designed by a trans woman." This is not factually correct. Roger Wilson was one of the designers of the processor…

The author (me) is one of literally dozens of people who doesn't live in the USA. We don't all obsess over a foreign politician. As for Sophie Wilson, I suggest you speak to your trans friends about whether they were trans before they publicly transitioned. If you don't have any trans friends, perhaps reflect on why that is.

Man you realize your real name is attached to your incredibly obnoxious snarky replies right?

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#87

Post by DeathArrow »

Cherry picking examples from science, technology or other fields to support an ideology isn't going to attract external supporters to that ideology but to make the bias stronger for the people who already believe in that ideology. Also, I rather read more "hacker news" and less ideological ramblings.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#88

Post by DeathArrow »

didgetmaster wrote: post #7

This guy lost me when he started talking about diversity issues instead of tech. I couldn't care less about the race, gender, or sexual orientation of the person(s) who created the hardware or software that I use. Does it work? Is it easy to understand and use? These are the things I am interested in. I am reminded of an early cartoon of a dog sitting at a computer saying 'On the Internet, no one knows you are a dog!…

>On the Internet, no one knows you are a dog!'

Unless you force people to acknowledge your are a dog.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#90

Post by amatecha »

Nextgrid wrote: post #31

The right-wing extremism we now have in the US is the expected knee-jerk reaction to the left-wing extremism that came before it. In both cases there's a few true believers and a lot of opportunists who use the cause as a way to further their own agenda. It happened with the left (the master branch rename being the stupidest example), it's now happening in the right, with big words and performative actions such as IC…

What left-wing extremism was that, exactly? Extreme upholding of human rights and equality? Extreme kindness and respect for fellow human beings? Extreme acceptance of people from all backgrounds, religious beliefs and sexual orientation? Extreme letting people live their damn life in whatever way they want as long as it doesn't harm others? Yeah, who wouldn't want to push back on that, sounds terrible eh?

So on this so-called extreme left, what exactly was/is so bad? You are expected to be nice to people when you meet them? You should consider the feelings of other human beings before you act? You had to rename a git branch because most of the people on your team agreed it's kinda lame to use a reference to slavery in a technical term? I've always wondered what people think the "extreme left" is and why they even remotely think it's somehow just as bad as the fascistic bullshit that sadistic, fear-driven socipaths keep working towards.

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