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The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

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Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#81

Post by anal_reactor »

liampulles wrote: post #29

Fun fact: The X-Files production team foresaw the coming of 16:9 home entertainment, so they made some effort (increasing with later seasons) to try and "protect" a 16:9 frame, which allowed for an unusually good 16:9 Blu-ray restoration. [ https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7499/look-inside-the-files... ] I learned this from the older X-files DVDs, which have some unusually good special features.

When you have an OLED screen then 4:3 aspect ratio is fine because the black bars aren't backlit, so it's not a problem.

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#82

Post by gwbas1c »

actionfromafar wrote: post #40
liampulles wrote: post #29

Fun fact: The X-Files production team foresaw the coming of 16:9 home entertainment, so they made some effort (increasing with later seasons) to try and "protect" a 16:9 frame, which allowed for an unusually good 16:9 Blu-ray restoration. [ https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7499/look-inside-the-files... ] I learned this from the older X-files DVDs, which have some unusually good special features.

Not saying it had anything to do with X-files, but also when you shot something for TV but were not entirely sure if the capture would ever go to the movies, you protected the wide frame. Also, if you shot a movie but wanted it to look good in TV later, you put the most important action somewhere in a 4:3.

Some movies were shot in 4:3 (ish) and cropped in the theater. Titanic is an example.

(For the pedantic, yes there is a name for this technique, and yes the ratios aren't exactly 4:3.)

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#83

Post by dylan604 »

alexpotato wrote: post #14

A side story on the techniques for restoration: I'm guessing about 10-15 years ago I was watching a documentary on the re-release of Ken Burns Civil War. They were highlighting the digital tools they were using to restore and enhance the original film capture for new streaming services etc. They showed one of the restorers using a fascinating tool where one window was a video feed of the original film's "first pass"…

Restoration tools are very cool. One tool I liked allows you to draw a marquee around an area you'd like to fix. It then allows you to shift the frames forward/back in just the highlighted area to find a frame without the blemish. Obviously a more static shot gave better results, but it was fast and easy to use. Much easier than trying to use a blemish/clone tool. Doing the same fix with rotoscoping techniques would take much more time/effort.

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#84

Post by doctornoble »

liampulles wrote: post #29

Fun fact: The X-Files production team foresaw the coming of 16:9 home entertainment, so they made some effort (increasing with later seasons) to try and "protect" a 16:9 frame, which allowed for an unusually good 16:9 Blu-ray restoration. [ https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7499/look-inside-the-files... ] I learned this from the older X-files DVDs, which have some unusually good special features.

Not to dismiss the X-files team, but 16:9 was already around when they started. Just not in the states. Japan started getting 16:9 CRTs in the early 90s, Europe followed in the mid 90s. America lagged another half decade and effectively skipped 16:9 CRTs mostly going straight to plasma/lcd.

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#85

Post by colechristensen »

bilekas wrote: post #50
colechristensen wrote: post #44

This could be an EXCELLENT marketing opportunity. Set up a site for fans to point out errors and vote on them. Then have HBO have just one editor interact with fans on the site, fix the most popular errors, and talk about them, maybe stream a little of the editing process.

That would require HBO to actually care.. They've already been paid, I don't see them fixing any of this for the streaming service.

marketing for people to engage with HBO Max and Mad Men... they haven't "already been paid"

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#86

Post by convenwis »

onionisafruit wrote: post #58
swores wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They never intended to show anything to the right of the doorframe on TV, so there's a random sign on the wall and a big hole in the wall (which makes sense if you are a camera crew wanting to film a sitcom in the apartment, that doesn't make so much sense in the fictional world that anyone would have a big rectangle cut out of the wall between their apartment and the hallway).

The “five card charlie” sign is part of the set that’s supposed to be on camera, but the hole in the sheetrock obviously isn’t.

I know you are right here but it is also true that many real New York apartments have crazy things like the hole in the sheetrock.

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#87

Post by dylan604 »

liampulles wrote: post #29

Fun fact: The X-Files production team foresaw the coming of 16:9 home entertainment, so they made some effort (increasing with later seasons) to try and "protect" a 16:9 frame, which allowed for an unusually good 16:9 Blu-ray restoration. [ https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7499/look-inside-the-files... ] I learned this from the older X-files DVDs, which have some unusually good special features.

I saw a movie in a theater years ago where the projectionist did not change the lens and/or mattes when switching from previews to the main feature. The projected image was much taller like a 1.85 or a 1.78, but the feature was shot wider 2.35/2.40. However, the image wasn't protected for the taller aspect, so all of the on set gak could be seen as it was never meant to be shown at the taller aspect ratio.

I've also sat in transfer sessions where the Pan&Scan decisions were being made to transfer wide screen down to 4:3 vs just doing a center crop extract. It makes you appreciate just how much effort is needed when done as best it could be rather than just the fast/lazy way.

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#88

Post by crazygringo »

globular-toast wrote: post #11

It's weird that they'd have the crew in the frame anyway. Was it really not possible to have them out of frame? I guess being able to "do it in post" makes people lazy?

It's not laziness!

It's the fact that shooting is enormously expensive per-minute, and time-constrained. Think of the sheer number of crew involved. And then think of the sheer number of shots you have to get per day, to stay on schedule and on budget.

If there was a mixup and it's going to take half an hour to get and set up a longer hose, it's much cheaper to have 1 person do it in post if it takes a day, versus delay the shot for half an hour while 50 people wait around. (And no, you often can't just shoot a different shot in the meantime, because that involves rearranging the lighting and set which takes just as long.)

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#89

Post by dylan604 »

gwbas1c wrote: post #82
actionfromafar wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying it had anything to do with X-files, but also when you shot something for TV but were not entirely sure if the capture would ever go to the movies, you protected the wide frame. Also, if you shot a movie but wanted it to look good in TV later, you put the most important action somewhere in a 4:3.

Some movies were shot in 4:3 (ish) and cropped in the theater. Titanic is an example. (For the pedantic, yes there is a name for this technique, and yes the ratios aren't exactly 4:3.)

35mm film is more square than rectangle. When you shoot wider aspect ratios, the whole frame is exposed. The eyepiece on the camera has lines on them to allow the DP to see the framing for the desired aspect ratio vs the whole frame. So it wasn't just a Titanic as example, it was pretty much all film was shot like that.

When digital cameras like the ones from Red came out, you can tell it the aspect ratio so it only saves the active pixels of the full sensor and ignore all of the out of aspect pixels. That's a brave operator doing that, and I've only seen it in the wild once.

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#90

Post by sgt »

b112 wrote: post #77
zehaeva wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What he's talking about is that the CGI in B5 was filmed in 4:3 and not in 16:9 like the rest of the show. When they did the "high res" releases they had to make the choice of doing everything in 16:9 or in 4:3. In 4:3 it looks good and like the original airing show, in 16:9 any non-digital/composite shot looks freaking fantastic. But once you get to any digital or composite shot it takes a nose dive in quality.

There was recent (last few years) work done to fix all of this. https://www.modeemi.fi/~leopold/Babylon5/DVD/DVDTransfer.htm... I have these versions, and it's world better than everything beforehand. It's also a good opportunity for a re-watch!

A very well written show. It's crazy to think a lot of people don't even get to watch this, because it's so hard to find. I couldn't find it anywhere (except for DVD's) so I had to resort to torrents.
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