Live data from Hacker News

Self-hosting a Matrix server for 5 years

yaky.dev

81–90 of 159 posts

Re: Self-hosting a Matrix server for 5 years

#81

There's a bunch of outdated info in here, unfortunately: > Does not have an admin panel The admin panel is at https://github.com/element-hq/element-admin (but it's relatively new, so many folks haven't noticed it exists) > No image captions > > This is silly, but while (official?) bridges support image captions, official Element app does not. Element Web & X support captions. (Element Web doesn't currently support au…

> The admin panel is at https://github.com/element-hq/element-admin

I think author uses regular synapse install and there is no apt package for element-admin, manual build would be required with no update process.

> Element Web & X support captions - i think this is honestly the worst of both worlds

if app_old has features A,B,C,D and app_new has A,C,D,E it frustrates both groups of users. Which app are you actually supposed to use? Having feature parity with the old app is essential before moving on with newer features. And I am still waiting for that to tell people to switch.

Re: Self-hosting a Matrix server for 5 years

#82

There's a bunch of outdated info in here, unfortunately: > Does not have an admin panel The admin panel is at https://github.com/element-hq/element-admin (but it's relatively new, so many folks haven't noticed it exists) > No image captions > > This is silly, but while (official?) bridges support image captions, official Element app does not. Element Web & X support captions. (Element Web doesn't currently support au…

You claim:

> There's a bunch of outdated info in here

Then link to a 3 week old issue and a repo that didn't meaningfully exist until two months ago? Wow.

If you consider that to be outdated, then that reinforces the OP's point about Matrix being difficult to host.

> at this point the old app is just not being developed; we don't have bandwidth to do both.

You're wording that as if it's a good excuse for providing a poor user experience. It's not.

Re: Self-hosting a Matrix server for 5 years

#83
Been selfhosting synapse for about 1.5 years in a docker compose setup using bunkerweb (formerly "bunkerized nginx", which better explains it premise) reverse proxy, eturnal for TURN and postgres, also recently added livekit and MAS for element call and element X compatibility. All that runs on a small 2vcore/4gb VPS, and it runs pretty good, I experience a server crash every half a month, but that may be caused by the fact that bunkerweb isn't the most lightweight solution (they actually require 8GB RAM minimum, so I'm already beneath the limit), and also because I run some other software (mailserver, ebook server, plex, etc..).

My experience as a administrator has been pretty good, perhaps it's because from the beginning I was optimistic, it suited my needs as I wanted a selfhosted, modern and fairly convenient communication platform. From what I recall, most problems during configuration were caused mostly by bunkerweb (or rather my inability to correctly set it up to proxy requests correctly and not hijack the 4xx and 5xx HTTP codes). Synapse itself has been a pleasure to maintain, but also bear in mind that I did not tinker with with it, I basically set it up and let it run for about a year and then added MAS and livekit.

Yeah, disk usage sucks, for about 5-10 active users and 1.5 year usage my postgres "schemas" folder clocks at 10Gibs. It doesn't include the media_store catalog where synapse keeps media (images, videos). The homeserver is federated and I joined a couple of big rooms in the past. Mechanics mentioned in the links below do help though:

https://matrix-org.github.io/synapse/v1.40/admin_api/purge_h...

https://github.com/matrix-org/rust-synapse-compress-state

Clientwise also sucks, but I think enough has already been said on this matter. But it's good enough to keep my nontechnical friends using it. They do hate it, but not enough to kick me in the arse. Would love to say that this proves that element clientside is usable, but I also have to admit that my friends are just hella good guys who would even write pigeon mail to me if I stopped using anything else for communication :) for me as a techie, element is obviously alright. Clunky, but works. I think clients simply need more time.

What irritates me is the Matrix authentication service (MAS), it's kind of a separate service for matrix homeservers that handles logins specifficaly. You can't use element X without it. However when it's enabled, you cannot log in from your client, instead a web browser opens and shows the login panel where you have to authorize, and then it should return to the client. Except in my case it simply doesn't :( I observed that for some reason chromium based browsers won't redirect back to the element app, and it doesn't know that the authorization has been granted. I managed to bypass it by copying the URL and opening it on firefox, but in one instance even that didn't work.

But other than that MAS problems everything has been fine from administration standpoint. I think it simply needs more time, as it already has traction, I see that a lot of new projects seem to include a matrix room in their social/communication channels, frequently it's the only option besides the bugtracker. And I'm willing to wait patiently :)

edit: added links for people who also struggle with disk space usage

Re: Self-hosting a Matrix server for 5 years

#84
post #5

Regarding the "Requires federation" section, that is not true. I've been running a small family-only homeserver for several years now, and had federation disabled on it from the very beginning, and there have been exactly zero issues related to (lack of) federation with it.

Same here, though you do still have to expose it to the internet unless you use a VPN. I'd prefer something with less of an attack service especially because bridges don't currently encrypt, but I host behind vpn now.

That's not a fair criticism. Of course you need to expose the server to the network clients are going to be connecting from. Whether that is Internet or just a LAN, that's orthogonal to the protocol.

I've also had an intra-company Matrix server running completely on a company internal LAN, with no Internet access, so there is no inherent need for it to be on The Internet.

Re: Self-hosting a Matrix server for 5 years

#85

Ran a homeserver for 5 years on a minimal VPS and it worked fine. Upsides - works everywhere, self hosted, feature complete. Client software in the ecosystem mostly felt bloated, with the exception of NeoChat. By 2022 the clients could no longer call each other. Decommissioned it this year in favor of traditional XMPP which works fine and it's nice that notifications are appropriately processed, finally. Our team hig…

We did address the elephant eventually with https://github.com/element-hq/element-admin a few months ago. In terms of VoIP interop - yes, one of the worst bits of Matrix is that the legacy 1:1 VoIP calling is not interoperable with MatrixRTC-based (multiparty) VoIP calling, but we ran out of time/cash to implement interop and instead focused on making MatrixRTC work well. (Does XMPP give you E2EE multiparty calling o…

Thank you Aaron for the direct response. Glad to see the central interface for administrative use. Haven't had the need to use the calling feature in a while. One of the hurdles with the Rust client on Fdroid was it was too new for the OS on the device it needed to be used on, but on iOS it was a performance improvement.

One of the genius ideas behind Element was the ecosystem of clients services that attach to rooms, and in some cases XMPP does not reach those expectations. I do plan on a redeployment soon after creating a new technical scope for its use.

I like what I can observe of the new admin interface. I hope it can come to include security and configuration check guidances to provide tools for admins of all skillsets to properly configure their servers, and related TURN-or-not and storage.

Matrix is bigtime like XMPP - I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon. Thankful for all that it has provided to our organizations.

Re: Self-hosting a Matrix server for 5 years

#86
post #34

Same setup here since 2017. Since then, RAM usage decreased by 60%. The admin panel is not something I'd need but it would be a nice-to-have. Started with postgres as I wouldn't go for anything else if I wanna use it for decades. It has 2.5GBs for 10users and I don't mind if it takes 10 or 20, that's something I expected. Never did a cleanup of anything, I just dumped the db and moved to OVH recently onto a new VPS w…

I ran my own matrix server for a number of years, then learned that any matrix homeserver would happily serve up any media from matrix without authentication. I shut it down the next day because I have no desire to operate a proxy for downloading csam. A url like https://my.domain.com/_matrix/media/ / would happily proxy the bad media through my server. I think they've fixed this, but it's not worth the risk to me.

Yes they fixed that about a year ago. It was a breaking change and required everyone to update their server software config.

Re: Self-hosting a Matrix server for 5 years

#87

Ran a homeserver for 5 years on a minimal VPS and it worked fine. Upsides - works everywhere, self hosted, feature complete. Client software in the ecosystem mostly felt bloated, with the exception of NeoChat. By 2022 the clients could no longer call each other. Decommissioned it this year in favor of traditional XMPP which works fine and it's nice that notifications are appropriately processed, finally. Our team hig…

I want to give credit, and that is the early rust iOS version of Element X I tried was very slick and quick, but I didn't try it for long.

Re: Self-hosting a Matrix server for 5 years

#88
post #76
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) is really not a big issue any more b) yeah, X solves it (via sliding sync)

a) As of when? I had a "cannot decrypt" room failure on matrix.org a year ago. b) Unfortunately, X breaks other important things, like audio/video calls. It currently feels like an alpha-quality release: buggy and lots of missing features. Not ready for widespread use.

I felt bad making a long thread once I opened Element X and saw it didn't have support for threads.

Someone let me know later that threads are hidden behind a Labs setting, but it only allows the client to reply to threads, but still exposes the entire thread inline for the channel which sucks up all the air in the chat.

Re: Self-hosting a Matrix server for 5 years

#89
post #78
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever is going on in Matrix land isn't stable enough for most people to switch. I gave up after they broke their calling system after changing something to this livekit system. It doesn't work, my existing TURN server became useless, and Matrix was left as a very slow chat application. I'm over it.

I don't plan to give up just yet. Switching is way too difficult and I don't see many platforms having both solid desktop and mobile versions with e2ee. But if they dare rewriting anything again from scratch I am leaving. They MUST stick with what they have and make it good at this point.

None of my friends ever migrated from Discord to my server for over a year, so not much is lost. I'll join more actively maintained instances to stick around the communities and chats I found for myself.

Re: Self-hosting a Matrix server for 5 years

#90
post #88
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) As of when? I had a "cannot decrypt" room failure on matrix.org a year ago. b) Unfortunately, X breaks other important things, like audio/video calls. It currently feels like an alpha-quality release: buggy and lots of missing features. Not ready for widespread use.

I felt bad making a long thread once I opened Element X and saw it didn't have support for threads. Someone let me know later that threads are hidden behind a Labs setting, but it only allows the client to reply to threads, but still exposes the entire thread inline for the channel which sucks up all the air in the chat.

this is wrong - the threads support in labs lets you create threads and navigate into them as you expect.

what you are describing is the old threads workaround which predates the proper solution in labs which should exit labs asap.

Post reply on HN