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Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

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Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#81

Post by Hikikomori »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #27
soloridindan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You already know where an enemy is if you hear them behind the wall, you don't need a cheat to tell you that there is noise coming from other side of the wall. The server also doesen't need to tell you they are behind it if they're sneaking. A game that allows zero home-in time sounds like a flaw in the game and something solvable on the serverside. You can replace a playermodel with wider "sound coming from around h…

> The server also doesen't need to tell you they are behind it if they're sneaking This requires the server to calculate line of sight checks for every player, which is costly, requires loading the entire geometry into the server and would be horribly prone to latency. Then you're looking at potential performance problems on the client due to only knowing about a player the second its in view and having to stream the…

Cs2 and Valorant does this, but start sending positions around corners before they're visible.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#82

Post by Insanity »

kreco wrote: post #75
Jhsto wrote: post #71

Cheats aside, are there any competitive games that include Uber-like rating system? Meaning that you'd need to provide feedback whether you'd play with your opponents/teammates again after a game.

The idea of someone rating me, or rating someone else makes me anxious. I'm not sure it would be better than just reporting people with undesired behavior.

I think it’s more anonymized like “did you enjoy the game with this team (1-5)”

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#83

Post by gilrain »

kreco wrote: post #75
Jhsto wrote: post #71

Cheats aside, are there any competitive games that include Uber-like rating system? Meaning that you'd need to provide feedback whether you'd play with your opponents/teammates again after a game.

The idea of someone rating me, or rating someone else makes me anxious. I'm not sure it would be better than just reporting people with undesired behavior.

> The idea of someone rating me, or rating someone else makes me anxious.

But not enough to avoid, as you’re here.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#84

Post by PetitPrince »

0xC0ncord wrote: post #59
theshrike79 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Server-authoritative games. Basically the client does stuff, gives the list of moves to the server along with a checksum/end result. Then the server runs the same commands on the same starting state and checks if it got the same result. If a==b, then everything moves on as normal. If not, the client gets a synchronisation error and has to rewind back to the last known good state. Completely unfeasible for anything re…

Having done modding for some older shooter games built on the server-authoritative model, it's still possible to create a "pingless" experience, but it requires more calculations and compromises on client/server trust to make it work. For shooters specifically, you want the client to provide instant feedback when the gun fires, and ideally when they hit an enemy. You can achieve this by telling the server "I was at p…

An elaborated version of this idea is called "rollback" where you let the local client predict and execute the game state at time t+1 and will "roll back" the state of the game if it received another game state than the one predicted. Extremely popular and state of the art for 2D fighting games (most of the time the prediction is correct and it greatly reduce the perceived lag) , but probably harder a bit harder to do with 3D games.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#85

Post by GCUMstlyHarmls »

Jhsto wrote: post #71

Cheats aside, are there any competitive games that include Uber-like rating system? Meaning that you'd need to provide feedback whether you'd play with your opponents/teammates again after a game.

Overwatch (1) had something like that. Not sure if Overwatch (2) still has it, or how it functions now.

In higher ELO, people would target good players with "avoid player"^1, effectively soft-banning those people from match making because the pool was small enough. They would still get put in matches eventually but their queues would blow out a lot.

From memory it did not have an explicit "match me with this person" button, but you could thumbs up players in the post-match podium as well as endorse them which may have soft-factored into matching you with them again.

\1 I think it was called this. It was a general "bad attitude" marker, not a "bad team mate" or "bad opponent" marker.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#86

Post by Almondsetat »

__alexs wrote: post #34

It's funny that game makers make a fuss about anti-cheat not working on Linux but then publish Switch versions of their games. That platform has almost zero security and is commonly emulated with cheats even in multiplayer these days.

The thing is: the Switch has a clear ToS, and if the user breaks it they can get into trouble. OTOH, if you release your game in Linux... that's it

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#87

Post by amiga386 »

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #26
Zak wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the most stringent types of Windows anti-cheat rely on remote attestation of the operating system. It's theoretically possible to design a Linux-based OS that supports such a capability, but the sort of people who choose Linux are unlikely to accept a third party having the final say over their computer. I, for one am disappointed that anyone has accepted it. Once it's widespread, service providers can demand…

I also strongly dislike requiring remote attestation for any kind of software I want to run. But what I also dislike is cheaters in my online games and I genuinely do not have a better suggestion on what to do. Personally, I run Windows purely for gaming and don't let it near any important data. For the latter, I boot into Linux with separately encrypted disks.

>But what I also dislike is cheaters in my online games and I genuinely do not have a better suggestion on what to do.

You can't suggest "run online games as close-knit social groups, with social exclusion punishments for cheaters", which is how most online games used to be run. How old are you?

Game vendors used to be happy letting us host and run our own multiplayer games, until they realised they could get more money out of us -- "battle passes", microtransactions, ability to forcibly turn off multiplayer of older game when newer remake comes out -- and now they've made themselves a mandatory part of your online experience. You have to use their matchmaking and their servers. So now it's down to them to solve the problem of cheaters, enabled by their centralised matchmaking... and their only solution is remote attestation of your machine and yet more data collection?

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#88

Post by 360MustangScope »

63stack wrote: post #32
hastily3114 wrote: post #4

Is there really no way to make anti-cheat on Linux that can't be bypassed? I don't know much about this, but it seems very difficult to make an anti-cheat for a platform where you can make changes in the kernel.

There is no way to make anticheat that can't be bypassed, regardless of OS. All of the anticheat games today have cheaters.

It doesn’t have to be 100%. The point is to make it inconvenient. The majority of people will not do it if it is inconvenient.

Thats the point to many things in life that you just make it more difficult and most people won’t be bothered to attempt to circumvent whatever it is.

There will still be circumventers but it is will be less than if you just said fuck it.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#89

Post by bakugo »

__alexs wrote: post #34

It's funny that game makers make a fuss about anti-cheat not working on Linux but then publish Switch versions of their games. That platform has almost zero security and is commonly emulated with cheats even in multiplayer these days.

> is commonly emulated with cheats even in multiplayer

There is no Switch emulator that can play online on official servers.

The only way you can cheat online is by hacking a real console, but the percentage of people who do it is quite small.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#90

Post by riddley »

Almondsetat wrote: post #86
__alexs wrote: post #34

It's funny that game makers make a fuss about anti-cheat not working on Linux but then publish Switch versions of their games. That platform has almost zero security and is commonly emulated with cheats even in multiplayer these days.

The thing is: the Switch has a clear ToS, and if the user breaks it they can get into trouble. OTOH, if you release your game in Linux... that's it

The games have ToS though right?
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