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Orion 1.0

blog.kagi.com

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Re: Orion 1.0

#81

Post by saint_yossarian »

rdg1991 wrote: post #61

I love Orion, but it's pretty unusable with 1Password set up - delay on keyboard input is unbearable with the extension enabled and it slows everything down significantly. I just ran a few benchmarks with BrowserBench Speedometer: 1Password extension disabled: 17 1Password extension enabled: 10 (and the test takes much longer) Vivaldi with extension enabled: 25 I really, really want to move back to Orion as my daily…

Bitwarden just had a similar bug with keyboard lag in their browser extension: https://github.com/bitwarden/clients/issues/17090

I wish browsers offered some kind of autofill extension API so password managers don't have to inject their own bullshit into every page.

Re: Orion 1.0

#82

Post by seplox »

ivell wrote: post #42
esafak wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. That's why I dropped Firefox.

Have you tried it out recently? On Mac and Android it is now very good. It used to be slow for me, but now on the same hardware it is fast enough that I don't see any difference compared to chrome.

Recently as in the last 8 years when they overhauled it. It really was slow as heck back in 2016, but the e10s effort really, really paid off in terms of performance.

It runs noticeably faster than chrome on my 12 year old laptop. Plus, it isn't riddled with invasive tracking garbage.

Re: Orion 1.0

#84

Post by eviks »

segphault wrote: post #17

I've attempted to switch to Orion on iOS a few times in the past and could never quite stick with it due to reliability issues. I'm giving it another try now to see if this 1.0 release gets it over that hurdle. Vivaldi is still a lot more polished than Orion on mobile, but Orion's support for Chrome extensions is a pretty compelling feature. I'm a very happy Kagi search user, so I'm rooting for them to succeed here.

this is a macOS release, ios is already past 1, it's 1.4.0 Though I've made the mistake of updating it following this announcement, and now I couldn't even type the url since the url bar didn't jump up to be on top of a keyboard. After a few restarts it does jump up, but it's still positioned incorrectly, either too high or too low depending on the keyboard So yea, unfortunately, not reliable yet...

Re: Orion 1.0

#85

Post by eddythompson80 »

sedatk wrote: post #75
have_faith wrote: post #16

> Most people switch browsers for one reason: speed. Is that true? Maybe it is and I'm out of the loop but I can't remember the last time someone complained about browser speed. The bottleneck seems to be website bloat more than anything else. Would love to see this argument quantified.

It was true, and it was what made Google Chrome popular in the first place. Internet Explorer and Firefox were dead slow to start at the time while Chrome started instantly. We just don’t know how bad slow browsers can be because all others have caught up.

That was a funny period of time because you could very transparently see the clear application of a corporate team that was tasked with improving the “startup speed KPI”.

During that time IE startup time went from a dozen or so seconds to also instantaneous. It was even faster than chrome sometimes. But that was just the startup. The application wasn’t ready to accept any user input or load anything for another 10 or 15 seconds still. Sometimes it would even accept input for a second then block the input fields again.

It’s the same mentality all those insanely slow webapps do when they think some core react feature for a “initial render” or splash screen etc will save them from their horrific engineering practices.

Re: Orion 1.0

#86

Post by eviks »

have_faith wrote: post #16

> Most people switch browsers for one reason: speed. Is that true? Maybe it is and I'm out of the loop but I can't remember the last time someone complained about browser speed. The bottleneck seems to be website bloat more than anything else. Would love to see this argument quantified.

Browsers are slow to startup, that's a common complaint for various browser-based apps, you must've heard that?

Re: Orion 1.0

#87

Post by makemethrowaway »

z64 wrote: post #77
luma wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single word answer: trust. Y’all seem like nice people but trust isn’t automatic these days.

Trust with regards to...? Orion doesn't have any telemetry, doesn't force any updates on you, doesn't require any account. You can audit the application's behavior with standard tools to verify that it isn't "phoning home", etc., it doesn't need to be open source to do that, nor would making it open source obviate auditig the final executable anyways. What do you perceive as the risk to "trusting" Orion in this case?…

It may not phone home now, but it can do it tomorrow, or it can in be enabled and immediately disabled in some minor releases. Even if people didn't catch those shenanigans immediately it will be evident from the commit history. I'd say opensource forces certain discipline.

Also there is point of rugpull, or the product is getting cancelled. Few people will step up to maintain it; atleast until most users migrate to a different product.

Re: Orion 1.0

#88

Post by embedding-shape »

eviks wrote: post #86
have_faith wrote: post #16

> Most people switch browsers for one reason: speed. Is that true? Maybe it is and I'm out of the loop but I can't remember the last time someone complained about browser speed. The bottleneck seems to be website bloat more than anything else. Would love to see this argument quantified.

Browsers are slow to startup, that's a common complaint for various browser-based apps, you must've heard that?

Applications that use browser engines for rendering tend to be a bit sluggy compared to native applications, yes. But I don't think a common complaint is that a web browser as a standalone application is particularly slow either running or starting up. People tend to say stuff gets slow once they have a ton of tabs open, which makes sense.

Re: Orion 1.0

#89

Post by esafak »

seplox wrote: post #82
ivell wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried it out recently? On Mac and Android it is now very good. It used to be slow for me, but now on the same hardware it is fast enough that I don't see any difference compared to chrome.

Recently as in the last 8 years when they overhauled it. It really was slow as heck back in 2016, but the e10s effort really, really paid off in terms of performance. It runs noticeably faster than chrome on my 12 year old laptop. Plus, it isn't riddled with invasive tracking garbage.

It was definitely slower than Chrome with numerous tabs when I switched (again) some time in the last two years.

Re: Orion 1.0

#90

Post by HHalvi »

I really love to hate Safari (extensions, ad blocking, dev tools amongst many other reasons) but love using a non chromium browser.

I discovered Orion a few years back and it has been my go-to standalone browser but never strong enough to be my primary browser.

So many daily drivers of mine refuse(d) to work from time to time (1P, Netflix, Youtube, Slack, Gmaps, Hey & the list goes on). I eventually started relying on Orion RC instead of Orion to band-aid fix these problems.

I truly hope they succeed but a few hours of driving the 1.0, it doesn't feel like a 1.0 yet.

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