Racism at a gaming company • Hacker News Board

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#81

Post by citricsquid » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 8:04 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #53

citricsquid wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno if he's just angry, I guess it makes sense, but I agree that some of his comments seem off, like he has "problems" beyond the situation, these are just as racist: Also, at some point after this conversation took place, one of the women looked at my prized necklace and said “Hey, that looks like a calculator, is that a calculator?” I said “um no, it’s a necklace, it’s African, from Nairobi.” And she replies “O…

In my experience once people get to the point where they want to shout out their hurt/anger to the world they have gone past the 'civil' stage. This person has a pretty much slam dunk case for a hostile work environment, the lawsuit would wake up management to that fact. Now it may be true that work was just the part that took them over the top, but I am not going to dismiss his clearly painful experience because of…

I didn't mean to imply his experience should be dismissed or considered any less "real", just that his own issues seem to extend beyond this situation. I think this post would do much better if he were to remove all his own racism, because it devalues his point.

I can't relate to his experience (middle class, white, male) but what I can do is read what he wrote and what jumps out most at me is his own racism. I think that for a post like this to truly achieve anything (as in, explain the issue to those that have no way to understand or relate) it needs to be without any sort of... I guess distraction.

It reflects poorly on me and everyone else that is unable to separate what is ultimately meaningless (his own racism) from the general point (kixeye has bad employees / management) and I think your point about his level of anger could be the reason why this actually has value (shows he is so angry / upset he lets himself become racist) to the post.

I want to care about his problem but I can't relate so I'm stuck trying to take value from what he has said and I can't do that without being overwhelmed by his own racism. I think what tptacek said above is right though, he doesn't matter, the post isn't about him, it's about the people at kixeye.

I'll leave my comment just for the sake of not destroying the conversation, but I no longer think it has value here.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#82

Post by king_jester » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 8:04 PM UTC

3minus1 wrote: post #4

Interesting read. The number of times the author mentions "white men" honestly made me uncomfortable. How is a statement like "Steve then proceeds to do what white men always can’t help but do: “educate.”" not racist in and of itself?

Is it racist on a micro level? Yes. However, keep in mind this a black man telling you about his personal experiences working in the valley, so you can imagine how often this happens to him (read: this happens a lot).

Also, that judgement really doesn't affect the manager, as he was just able to walk out of that meeting and continue to be a shithead.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#83

Post by seagreen » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 8:05 PM UTC

famousactress wrote: post #45

drats wrote: post #29

"Dumbblack " "then proceeds to do what black men always can’t help but do" "black men always telling which way is up because they feel they are the “authority” when it comes to any and everything, most often when they don’t know shit about shit" " I know when black people start to speak down to me from their pedatsol which is white privilege, they aren’t listening, nor will they" "I cannot afford to take black people…

Let's pretend for a minute that I think it's reasonable to swap black & white in these sentences and call them equivalent (I don't)... There's still a mammoth difference between opinions someone writes on a blog and things people say to their employees or coworkers at work . I can't think of a time that I faced the level of ugliness laid out in this story even once in my 32 years, so the last thing that occurs to me…

Maybe you had a job or something that required you to write your name a lot when you were 32? I keep getting my address mixed up because it's almost, but not quite, identical to my old one. It can be pretty embarrassing.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#84

Post by MartinCron » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 8:06 PM UTC

ctide wrote: post #24

This really isn't that surprising to me. Game testers are the same young kids who are running around xbox games going out of their way to be as offensive as possible to everyone. It should come as no shock that they act the same way at work when work is just an extension of their regular gaming life. I'm not defending it, mind you, since Kixeye is going way too far with it, but the 'culture' he speaks of is the onlin…

It should come as a shock when they act the same way at work. Why? Because we're trying to be a civilized society and that kind of bullshit is expressly illegal.

You can't (and shouldn't) regulate online gaming culture, which isn't tragic because you can opt out of it (I don't play Xbox games online for that very reason) but you can't expect a person to opt out of the workplace.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#85

Post by lnanek2 » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 8:07 PM UTC

cstross wrote: post #3

"We don’t even tolerate people brining up concerns of racism here." Translation: "we don't want to admit that we have a toxic, racist corporate culture so we're going to blame the messenger." The emphasis here is on racism, but there's a ton of casual sexism -- and I'd be surprised if ageism wasn't present, too. This is, at best, a company where HR have taken their eye off the ball. More likely, there are serious ins…

I doubt they have an HR department yet...

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#86

Post by crosvenir » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 8:07 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #48

columbo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WHO CARES? It unnecessarily adds doubt to the claims being made. If your narrator has an agenda it becomes difficult to trust that narrator.

You're saying you doubt this happened?

Because I didn't see a better place to comment and I value your response:

When should it be considered acceptable for a victim to mimic their aggressor's behavior (especially when it is similar behavior that caused the victimization to begin with)?

Disclaimer: I'm trying to understand and not support to any of the GP comments.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#87

Post by columbo » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 8:07 PM UTC

king_jester wrote: post #72

columbo wrote: post #37

> calculator Was that inherently a racist thing to say? Because looking at it... it does look like something electronic. There's no question that the workplace was hostile, but there are too many side quests in this article. I'm not sure what Jose's marriage or the Dumbwhite-comment has to do with it. Maybe I'm missing something.

In the context of the preceding few minutes of conversation the author had with this manager, the only way the necklace question can be taken is as a racist comment.

Huh...

>Also, at some point after this conversation took place, one of the women looked at my prized necklace and said “Hey, that looks like a calculator, is that a calculator?”

I didn't really read that as immediately after, more along the lines of "sometime later that day someone walked up and asked if my necklace was a calculator"... the sentence doesn't give a good grasp on timing.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#88

Post by rauljara » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 8:07 PM UTC

drats wrote: post #29

"Dumbblack " "then proceeds to do what black men always can’t help but do" "black men always telling which way is up because they feel they are the “authority” when it comes to any and everything, most often when they don’t know shit about shit" " I know when black people start to speak down to me from their pedatsol which is white privilege, they aren’t listening, nor will they" "I cannot afford to take black people…

You're leaving out a pretty important bit of context. He isn't talking about white people in general, here. He is talking about a very specific subset of people who have had power over him, and said pretty racist things to him. I'm pretty sure he wasn't referring to my white mother when he said dumbwhite.

While I agree that the saintly thing to is respond without bringing up your persecutors' race, I am pretty sympathetic to people who have been the victims of overt racism seeing some things in terms of race. They've had their faces rubbed in it.

And I'm sorry to come down hard on you, but it's pretty arrogant to tell someone who is still suffering the consequences of being harassed because of his race not to take notice of the race of the people harassing him.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#89

Post by AJ007 » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 8:07 PM UTC

drats wrote: post #29

"Dumbblack " "then proceeds to do what black men always can’t help but do" "black men always telling which way is up because they feel they are the “authority” when it comes to any and everything, most often when they don’t know shit about shit" " I know when black people start to speak down to me from their pedatsol which is white privilege, they aren’t listening, nor will they" "I cannot afford to take black people…

Hacker News has taken another step towards Gawker. If this kind of garbage was modded up here every day, I would find somewhere else to find real news.

Re: Racism at a gaming company

#90

Post by bluestix » Tue, Oct 02, 2012, 8:07 PM UTC

Most of the companies I have seen in SillyCon Valley solve this problem by not hiring any black people.

It's still racist but with less confrontation.

If you want to know why just go to a bunch of venture capital websites, click on the 'About Us' link and browse the pictures. They will be 85% white and 15% Asian and Indian.