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What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?

theatlantic.com

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Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?

#81

Post by in_cahoots »

TrackerFF wrote: post #61

Let's be clear though, there's quite a difference in doing problems related to working memory, mental computation, etc. under time constraints - usually what you get when taking standardized tests, aptitude tests, IQ tests, etc. - and solving "actual" real world math problems, like mathematical modelling, numerical methods, and what have you. I'm sure if I walk around in the office and ask people a problem like "Car…

Did you read the article? These kids can't even divide a fraction in half. It's basic numeracy and foundational skills that are missing.

Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?

#83

Post by triceratops »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #75
Ekaros wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the same seems to extend to things when private companies discussed. Nothing is enough you cannot be happy with company making million in post tax profit a year. Next year you must do two million, then 4 and 8 and so on... Even not attempting this is somehow failure for some people...

It feels more skewed for public companies for me. There's definitely "well off" small private companies that have good returns (mom and pop shops) and keep going and making their customers happy for decades, and those aren't an issue. There'll definitely be 'evil' private companies, but something about the stock market ruins companies. You are too dependent on the perception of your company and the markets reaction t…

Then mom and pop retire, the shop is sold to PE, and they do the same thing as a public company.

Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?

#84

Post by Aurornis »

FatherOfCurses wrote: post #66
Aurornis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> better off people don't think they can escape and push to make the program better for everyone. Your solution is to make the smart kids suffer so maybe they can force the educators to do better? That’s insane. It’s also not going to happen. Do you know what will happen? Any parent with the means will scrape together cash to pull their students out and go to private schools. Or they’ll hire tutors after school and f…

This gives off "I Am Very Smart" vibes. I was in a gifted program in grades 5-7, stopped going mainly because I had to travel to another school to attend and it was inconvenient. I didn't "suffer" being in classes with folks who weren't at my level. The teaching staff did a great job and I never felt like I was being shortchanged. My undiagnosed ADHD means I goofed around a lot, but several of my friends told me afte…

Great that it worked for you. I believe everyone should have the choice.

However, please don’t force your experience to be the only allowable experience for others. If some students want to take advanced classes, we should let them.

Refusing to allow students to learn at a faster rate is insanity.

Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?

#85

Post by in_cahoots »

tr45872267 wrote: post #57
bryanlarsen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAICT many private schools are worse than public schools. Parents put kids into private schools so that they get good grades and extra-curriculars to let them get into the good universities. So that's what private schools sell -- good grades. It's less important that they have the education that the good grades imply.

They do perform better on average >The average private school mean reading score was 14.7 points higher than the average public school mean reading score, corresponding to an effect size of .41 (the ratio of the absolute value of the estimated difference to the standard deviation of the NAEP fourth-grade reading score distribution). After adjusting for selected student characteristics, the difference in means was nea…

Considering private schools cost tens of thousands of dollars and get to choose who they admit, as good (in reading) and worse (in math) than schools with similar demographics seems pretty damning, doesn't it?

Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?

#86

Post by triceratops »

tehjoker wrote: post #13
Aurornis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t. The movements pushing these ideas are against the idea of aptitude testing. Many of them are even against the idea of having advanced classes for those who are ahead. It’s not a niche ideology, sadly. It’s going mainstream. A core part of Zohran Mamdani’s platform was his goal to phase out gifted education programs, for example.

There is a silver lining though, when everyone is in the same class, better off people don't think they can escape and push to make the program better for everyone.

But you can't tailor one program for kids with different abilities. You shouldn't even try. You should give each individual what they need to succeed to the best of their ability. That's the core of inclusion and equity. You know, the classic comic of the three kids trying to look over the fence?

Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?

#87

Post by giancarlostoro »

triceratops wrote: post #83
giancarlostoro wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels more skewed for public companies for me. There's definitely "well off" small private companies that have good returns (mom and pop shops) and keep going and making their customers happy for decades, and those aren't an issue. There'll definitely be 'evil' private companies, but something about the stock market ruins companies. You are too dependent on the perception of your company and the markets reaction t…

Then mom and pop retire, the shop is sold to PE, and they do the same thing as a public company.

Yeah I noticed any time original founders are replaced, companies degrade. The pride of running a good company just isn't there. That's not ALWAYS the case though. I have a relative who bought an AC repair company out, and made it into the amazing company that it is today.

Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?

#88

Post by IAmBroom »

NiloCK wrote: post #48

> “Who is going to trust somebody who got a degree in airline engineering who doesn’t know how to think through a problem without a computer telling them the answer?” Years ago when I was working in education (Canadian public schools) our school board had a conference ahead of the school year. The keynote was an inclusive-ed researcher / consultant / speaker who told an anecdote of how they had successfully lobbied f…

The anecdote I heard was a grade-school teacher admitting they had never used the Pythagorean formula IRL.

Well, no fucking shit, Sherlock! You aren't the sort of person to turn to math to solve problems. You're the sort of homesy chuckle-cluck who puts up inspirational posters on your bedroom wall.

OTOH, I've been on my back in an attic with a house builder, and calculated the 3-dimensional length of the bizarre edges of a skylight (where the ceiling opening was completely skew to the roof opening). We absolutely used math to solve the problem.

That grade school teacher? They wouldn't have been asked to check the calculations. The carpenter? Used math IRL.

Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?

#89

Post by nicbou »

NiloCK wrote: post #48

> “Who is going to trust somebody who got a degree in airline engineering who doesn’t know how to think through a problem without a computer telling them the answer?” Years ago when I was working in education (Canadian public schools) our school board had a conference ahead of the school year. The keynote was an inclusive-ed researcher / consultant / speaker who told an anecdote of how they had successfully lobbied f…

To be fair no one ever takes a moment to show you what the math is useful for. You're just expected to learn it because it's said to be important.

Re: What happens when even college students can't do math anymore?

#90

Post by IAmBroom »

general1465 wrote: post #82

What if USA would stop treating education like a business - customer paid for degree, customer gets the degree no matter if customer has essential knowledge for the degree?

What if we publicly acknowledged it's a key infrastructure to our economy, government, and society?
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