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I don’t need a Steam Machine

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Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#81

Post by ajvs »

tormeh wrote: post #40
torginus wrote: post #27

When I first saw the Arduino I didn't see the point - after all there were boards that cost less, did more, and the Arduino IDE seemed very barebones compared to what you could do with GCC and a custom toolchain. Then eventually I saw how much community support, ready made hardware emerged around it, to the point that after a while, not going the Arduino route was a decision you needed to justify heavily. Same thing…

> a comparable desktop experience to the commercial OSes Isn't it alteady comparable? My Linux desktop has almost the same game compatibility that Windows has, and none of the advertising and jank. Gone are the legendary days of xorg.conf. Linux has less problems than Windows now. Support from professional software vendors (Dassault, Autodesk, et al) and Nvidia could be better, admittedly, but these restrictions aren…

And this is due to Valve's big investments in Proton, Steam Deck and the new Steam hardware to get game compatibility working from both the Linux/Wine side as well as making game developers aim for compatibility.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#83

Post by timschmidt »

garretraziel wrote: post #65
Yoric wrote: post #57

Let me be that guy: we live in a time of collapse, for both the environment and international relationships – do we really need more gaming rigs?

OK, but do you expect Valve to do anything about first two problems you have mentioned? (OK, saying “our next console will be a bunch of refurbished PCs we have sourced from local junkyard” would be a flex)

Both the CPU and GPU Valve chose for the Steam Machine are cut down ("binned") versions of silicon AMD likely had lying around. The CPU is a laptop part which didn't sell in huge volume and has had the GPU fused off. The GPU has several CUs disabled compared to top-of-the-line. This indicates to me that Valve is using silicon which AMD either couldn't use otherwise, or couldn't sell for top price.

You can see the alternative with PS5 and Xbox, where AMD designed and produced large bespoke custom chips. Versions of these chips which don't fully pass QA could have a few defective cores or CUs fused off and used elsewhere, but we don't see that outside of some very niche Chinese motherboards.

Valve's approach instead allows them to re-use standard PC components which just didn't quite meet muster.

So in effect, "our next console will be a bunch of refurbished PCs we have sourced from local junkyard" is exactly what Valve did here.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#84

Post by tormeh »

zavec wrote: post #74
tormeh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a comparable desktop experience to the commercial OSes Isn't it alteady comparable? My Linux desktop has almost the same game compatibility that Windows has, and none of the advertising and jank. Gone are the legendary days of xorg.conf. Linux has less problems than Windows now. Support from professional software vendors (Dassault, Autodesk, et al) and Nvidia could be better, admittedly, but these restrictions aren…

> Support from professional software vendors (Dassault, Autodesk, et al) and Nvidia could be better, admittedly, but these restrictions aren't very relevant to me. I think that's maybe what GP was getting at. If you know how to debug stuff and such then Linux is perfectly serviceable today. With something like this, between Valve presumably publishing some docs and a big community for a single platform it should beco…

What do these things have to do with each other? You can't debug your way out of bad Nvidia support or nonexistent Dassault support. You have to just not use these products in combination with Linux, or just accept the issues that come with them.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#85

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

Wurdan wrote: post #67
mariopt wrote: post #12

Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox. A “console” that I can use as a PC? I am in 100%. You’ll get the world biggest game library at a discount, this is why I sold my PlayStation after spending 200 euros and watching it becoming useless. I also suspect a lot of game devs will optimize for steam machine and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC. Don’t let the “low specs”…

I don't really get why people are calling it a console. It is a PC to me in all the ways that matter, and it's probably going to save me from spending 1500 euros on a mid-range gaming laptop that I don't really need. The only thing that I don't use my ipad for is playing games with my friends in other countries while we chat on discord. And the last 5 games we've played together do benefit from keyboard and mouse con…

> I don't really get why people are calling it a console. It is a PC to me

because "console" isn't what a product is (supply) - it is a name for product niche (demand)

when someone talks about buying a console, the expectations are 1)significantly cheaper than "usual" computer 2)most likely optimized for games (controller input, easy install) 3)expectation of using already existing TV as display

consoles weren't different from low-end pc all the way since x-box

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#86

Post by baq »

tatjam wrote: post #3

I'm looking for it as a general development machine, sometimes I do stuff that requires GPUs so if they can get a competitive price wrt. building a custom PC then I'm all in for the convenient form factor!

The steam machine as they’re marketing it doesn’t have enough RAM to be a proper development box once you start running IDEs, language servers and debuggers. They’d need to release a 64 or 128 gig sku, unless RAM is easily upgradable.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#87

Post by 0x073 »

timschmidt wrote: post #73
0x073 wrote: post #7

I think the Steam Machine has to succeed for SteamOS on Linux to keep growing, and for the niche of the Linux desktop to become larger. Steam has already failed at this once, and it won’t try a third time. (And Windows is currently at its lowest point, so it’s the perfect opportunity.)

> won’t try a third time I see no evidence for this, and plenty of evidence to the contrary. Notably, after the initially failed Steam Machines, we now have Steam Deck, Steam Machine Mark II, Steam Frame, Steam Controller Mark II, etc. And critically, Valve seems to be learning, iterating, and the Steam Deck and Steam Controller Mark II are both much more enjoyable to use than the first Steam Controller. From their p…

Because steam/valve ist bound to gabe, not sure who comes after him. (10 years between the steam machines)

But such changes are mostly more negative.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#88

Post by nialv7 »

Wurdan wrote: post #67
mariopt wrote: post #12

Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox. A “console” that I can use as a PC? I am in 100%. You’ll get the world biggest game library at a discount, this is why I sold my PlayStation after spending 200 euros and watching it becoming useless. I also suspect a lot of game devs will optimize for steam machine and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC. Don’t let the “low specs”…

I don't really get why people are calling it a console. It is a PC to me in all the ways that matter, and it's probably going to save me from spending 1500 euros on a mid-range gaming laptop that I don't really need. The only thing that I don't use my ipad for is playing games with my friends in other countries while we chat on discord. And the last 5 games we've played together do benefit from keyboard and mouse con…

Well, it's kind of a new thing, isn't it.

Just like the deck popularized the idea of "handheld PCs". Maybe the Machine will do the same to "console PC". It's a PC, but also a console.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#89

Post by baq »

haunter wrote: post #80

Funnily Valve doesn’t need it either to some extent. It’s almost like a pet project. They won’t sell it retail, no ads, so certainly won’t even hurt the sales of Switch 2 and PS5. Mind you the former just sold more than 10m units in less than 6 months. Secondly Valve makes disgusting amount of money from the lootboxes and the unregulated underage gambling market (estimated billions) which are almost a 0 effort system…

Tail risk for valve is they get locked out of the windows ecosystem via the App Store or some other trusted computing shenanigans. Steam hardware running windows games on an open OS mitigates this.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#90

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

tetha wrote: post #53
mariopt wrote: post #12

Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox. A “console” that I can use as a PC? I am in 100%. You’ll get the world biggest game library at a discount, this is why I sold my PlayStation after spending 200 euros and watching it becoming useless. I also suspect a lot of game devs will optimize for steam machine and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC. Don’t let the “low specs”…

> Don’t let the “low specs” fool you, it has the same specs or better as 70% of steam users. We are also out of the rat race of hardware requirements of the 90s. I'm on a 7 year old system and if you're not chasing to max out the latest AAA game on launch, that thing can run a lot of games. It's mainly storage and RAM for modded minecraft or Satisfactory that's a bit of a mess atm. Though RAM prices are spicy at the…

any strategy game recommendations from your dad?
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