If it's inheritable wouldn't that make it by definition genetic?
No. If the change happens without altering the DNA (or RNA) sequence it's not genetic it's epigenetic. epi- = outside
Better translation of epi- : on top of.
Transgenerational Epigenetic Inheritance: the story of learned avoidance
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Re: Transgenerational Epigenetic Inheritance: the story of learned avoidance
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
human gene regulation is dependent on methylation events and acetylation events, as well as conformal events with respect to the strand. there is no meiotic reset to default. you should hang with some oncogeneticists for fresh perspective.
And absolutely none of that refutes the claims from Kahn that started this thread.
no thats wrong.
there is a claim that epigenetic mechanisms in bacteria provide weak support for such in humans, not true it was the basis for realizing that epigenetic mechanisms exist, and was central to understanding regulaion of expression.
there is a claim that meiosis resets the genome and that is absolutely untrue. regulation would be impossible if epigenetic state was wiped out, the result is most often cancer, or lethal dose effects at the cellular stage of development.
you say you are not a geneticist yet you are criticizing geneticists for presentation of hypotheses while lacking the background.
timing of binding and procession reative to halflife of the expression complex is a critical part of regulation of genetic activity.
i am a scientist as well, molecular geneticist; organic chemist, nuclear physicist. i am a true polymath, this is not a meme, i contract for a body of government agencies, as a science officer, thus my ID and fine details of my work are not up for discussion, nor is any of my work for the last 10 years.
i would however be fine discussing generalities of expression regulation systems if you like.
Re: Transgenerational Epigenetic Inheritance: the story of learned avoidance
#83Epigenetics is one of those things that seems wild until you pull the camera back a bit. A cell is affected by and responds to its surroundings - this is not controversial. In eukaryotes, this is usually done by way of altering gene expression - up- or down-regulation by means of chemical markers on the cell’s DNA which are created or removed by enzymes which are activated or deactivated by certain substances in the…
Being confused about how 2 environments could produce different individuals even though they are given the same DNA is like being confused about how 2 compilers could produce different binaries even though they are given the same source code.
Re: Transgenerational Epigenetic Inheritance: the story of learned avoidance
#84Epigenetics is one of those things that seems wild until you pull the camera back a bit. A cell is affected by and responds to its surroundings - this is not controversial. In eukaryotes, this is usually done by way of altering gene expression - up- or down-regulation by means of chemical markers on the cell’s DNA which are created or removed by enzymes which are activated or deactivated by certain substances in the…
The problem with this perspective is that you would expect the effect of a past environmental influence to be overwritten by a future environmental influence. The idea that the effect of the past influence would persist is what is questionable.
Re: Transgenerational Epigenetic Inheritance: the story of learned avoidance
#85Worms are great, but they're not your grandma. So one thing missing from the excitement around this line of work: how little these worm effects generalize to mammals. C. elegans has very unusual biology — direct soma→germline communication pathways, minimal nervous systems, and short generational cycles. Epigenetic inheritance is much easier to observe there than in mice or humans, where mechanisms differ and dilutio…
The article is about how difficult it is to study the effect in very simple organisms, and your criticism is that it's not yet studied in much more complicated organisms. Guess we need a few more decades (or centuries)...
Re: Transgenerational Epigenetic Inheritance: the story of learned avoidance
#86Honest question: isn’t all inheritance transgenerational?
There's also horizontal (intergenerational) gene transfer, though you might not call that "inheritance".
Re: Transgenerational Epigenetic Inheritance: the story of learned avoidance
#87Worms are great, but they're not your grandma. So one thing missing from the excitement around this line of work: how little these worm effects generalize to mammals. C. elegans has very unusual biology — direct soma→germline communication pathways, minimal nervous systems, and short generational cycles. Epigenetic inheritance is much easier to observe there than in mice or humans, where mechanisms differ and dilutio…
So what? Not everything has to be about humans.
Re: Transgenerational Epigenetic Inheritance: the story of learned avoidance
#88Worms are great, but they're not your grandma. So one thing missing from the excitement around this line of work: how little these worm effects generalize to mammals. C. elegans has very unusual biology — direct soma→germline communication pathways, minimal nervous systems, and short generational cycles. Epigenetic inheritance is much easier to observe there than in mice or humans, where mechanisms differ and dilutio…
So what? Not everything has to be about humans.
No. Science is inherently human-centric. If a line of academic research has no conceivable way of benefitting humans, at least indirectly, it is eventually halted.
Re: Transgenerational Epigenetic Inheritance: the story of learned avoidance
#89[dead]
Re: Transgenerational Epigenetic Inheritance: the story of learned avoidance
#90Epigenetics is one of those things that seems wild until you pull the camera back a bit. A cell is affected by and responds to its surroundings - this is not controversial. In eukaryotes, this is usually done by way of altering gene expression - up- or down-regulation by means of chemical markers on the cell’s DNA which are created or removed by enzymes which are activated or deactivated by certain substances in the…
For whatever reason, epigenetics is somehow considered by a great many people to be some whackadoodle conspiracy theorist woo-woo.
When I posit the following explanation-question that helped me to understand at least that epigenetics does akshually come from science, either the light bulb goes on over one's head or it's seething hate:
How come all of the cells in our bodies have the same DNA, but they can be so different? In other words, why are we not comprised of an amorphous blob of identical cells?