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Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

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Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#81
post #43
post #39

I'm really wary of these initiatives, because perfect law enforcement is how society ossifies. Imagine if we could prosecute all homosexual tendencies when they happened, or all interracial relationships, or any other antiquated law. Society would never progress. What happens if the government can now perfectly enforce that people under 18 can't do X or Y?

How does this apply to a digital version of an official government ID? The government already has all this data.

At best a digital ID has an additional attack surface and is just more accessible.

You normally aren't carrying your passport with you, right? So even if lower security, the chance of that information being swiped is generally lower.

Phones are pretty high profile targets, this makes them more so.

I do like the idea and the convenience, but I'm definitely wary of these things too. Especially in the modern tech world where security is often being treated as a second thought as it is less impactful for sales. I'm pretty sure it is always cheaper to implement the security, but right now we're not great at playing long games and we like to gamble. Humans have always been pretty bad at opportunity costs. We see the dollars spent now and that seems to have far more value than what you save later.

On the other hand, currently US citizens are not legally required to walk around with their IDs on them. That's not true for non-citizens btw. You should have to just give the officer your name, but they can detain you while they "verify your identity." With an ID becoming frictionless and more commonly held on person, will this law change? Can we trust that it'll stay the same given our current environment of more frequent ID requests (I'm trying to stay a bit apolitical. Let's not completely open up that issue here?). I'd say at best it is "of concern." But we do live in a world run by surveillance capitalism.

There's a really good example I like of opportunity cost that shows the perverse nature of how we treat them. Look at the Y2K bug. Here on HN most of us know this was a real thing that would have cost tons of money had we not fixed it. But we did. The success was bittersweet though, as the lack of repercussions (the whole point of fixing the problem!) resulted in people believing the issue was overblown. Most people laugh at Y2K as if it was a failed doomsday prediction rather than a success story of how we avoided a "doomsday" (to be overly dramatic) situation. So we create a situation where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you do fix a problem, people treat you as if you were exaggerating the problem. If you don't fix the problem you get lambasted for not having foreseen the issue, but you do tend to be forgiven for fixing it.

Just remember, CloudStrike's stock is doing great[0] ($546). Had you bought the dip ($218) you'd have made a 150% ROI. They didn't even drop to where they were a year previously, so had you bought in July of 2023 ($144) and sold in the dip you'd have still made a 50% profit in that year... (and 280% if you sold today).

Convince me we're good at playing the long game... Convince me we're not acting incredibly myopic... Convince me CloudStrike learned their lesson and the same issue won't happen again...

[0] https://seekingalpha.com/symbol/CRWD

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

In the United States, getting an ID is expensive and time-consuming and is often inaccessible to many people, particularly those who don’t speak English, are poor, or work service jobs. These people are the same people who are historically marginalized and oppressed. This is why voter ID laws in the United States are fundamentally anti-democratic and disenfranchising. If IDs were free and incredibly easy to get, I wo…

> In the United States, getting an ID is expensive and time-consuming and is often inaccessible to many people, particularly those who don’t speak English, are poor, or work service jobs.

No to all of that? Passport book (which you don't need unless you travel internationally) cost 165 USD per 10 years.

Time-consuming...it's a one short trip to local-ish post office (not every post office has passport services). Sure, it's appointment only and only M-F, but you need to do it once every 10 years.

Non-English speakers... You have to pass a basic English test for naturalization, and if you're born here, you probably should speak at least basic English. It's one form as you have to fill out online.

Objectively, it's easier for a service worker to get shit done during the workweek than for 9-5 salaried.

Anyway, California got it right: applied for Real ID? Want to register to vote or update your registration while you're at it? And it cost like $40 (depending on state)

IDs are cheap and easy to get, and I wouldn't want a person who can't figure something that simple to have any voice on the federal level.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No party in the US seem to fight for a secure (end-to-end auditable) voting process. I've yet to hear any politician talk about anything like that, a process where no voter has to trust the system and can be still confident (assuming they understand the underlying math) their vote was counted and counted correctly. It is true that every scheme out there (that I've read about) has some flaws. But I'd rather have NSA s…

The reason is nobody trusts a single party to implement that honestly. Last time I checked, Party X only cared about Party Y’s voters who are voting illegally. They’re perfectly fine with their voters doing it. Technology is a tool against corruption not a cure for it.

What Democratic policies are geared towards disenfranchising Republican voters? I don't believe there are any. Unlike Republican-enacted policies, which have been found in court to have discriminatory intent.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#85

There was a post from trailofbits blog recently about how passport crypto works. Kind of related here. I wonder if this is some zero knowledge proofs here or what? Reading the passport and its chip implies some terminal authentication capabilities coming from Apple devices. Passport would not allow reading sensitive data from the chip unless the terminal is valid. Another question is if Apple is allowed to read your…

> Reading the passport and its chip implies some terminal authentication capabilities coming from Apple devices They’ve had some form of this for ages with Apple Pay

Sorry I was meaning to say "passport terminal" capabilities which would require a cert to be issued by a country whose passport chips you want to read. Well maybe they had this for a while but AFAIK you could not read passport details with an apple device before

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#86
post #79
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're (e.g.) buying alcohol, then the "specific information" would be your birthday, and that is all that would be sent over. Unless there is a very tight control over this - lol nope. Big stores will request as much as they can to target you with ads.

You could then decide not to buy the alcohol. Unless you are severely addicted, you will not die if you don't purchase alcohol.

Yes, but the point is that we already know (app permissions, cookie tracking consents) that "ask only what you need to function" isn't how sellers operate.

Also, you need an ID to buy some OTC medicine and to pick up some prescribed medicine. As well some other cases when ID needs to be presented, but those probably require more than just DOB anyway.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#87
post #12

I am never handing my phone to a cop.

> I am never handing my phone to a cop. The point is that you don't have to: > To present a Digital ID in person, users can double-click the side button or Home button to access Apple Wallet and select Digital ID. From there, they can hold their iPhone or Apple Watch near an identity reader, review the specific information being requested, and use Face ID or Touch ID to authenticate. "hold … near … review" If you're…

For buying alcohol, I wonder if faceID will also somehow be required to verify the holder of the phone corresponds to the digital id

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#88
post #4

I’m still waiting for the day where 100% of state drivers licenses are supported in wallet and anyone requesting ID are required to accept them. Quite literally the only reason I have a wallet these days is for the drivers license.

Most of the world isn’t even covered by this feature yet, like the EU digital id and driving licences.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#89
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is nobody trusts a single party to implement that honestly. Last time I checked, Party X only cared about Party Y’s voters who are voting illegally. They’re perfectly fine with their voters doing it. Technology is a tool against corruption not a cure for it.

What Democratic policies are geared towards disenfranchising Republican voters? I don't believe there are any. Unlike Republican-enacted policies, which have been found in court to have discriminatory intent.

I don’t have a say here… but wouldn’t allowing potentially illegal votes be exactly disenfranchising the side that illegal votes do not benefit?

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#90
post #79
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're (e.g.) buying alcohol, then the "specific information" would be your birthday, and that is all that would be sent over. Unless there is a very tight control over this - lol nope. Big stores will request as much as they can to target you with ads.

You could then decide not to buy the alcohol. Unless you are severely addicted, you will not die if you don't purchase alcohol.

Following the same reasoning, one could decide not to open any website, their TV, their phone and even their fridge. None of these will kill you

While should companies tracking us to make more money affect our habits?

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