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Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

seattletimes.com

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Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#81

Post by QuantumFunnel »

estearum wrote: post #55
pton_xd wrote: post #12

What did they think would happen? Installing surveillance systems to monitor people is acceptable, as long as they're only used against the majority? I don't understand the logic here.

You don't understand the logic of "there are some crime problems we're willing to accept more intrusions to solve than other crime problems?" Seems like something virtually everyone believes, and all that changes is where they draw the line of balance between intrusion and safety.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#82

Post by Tadpole9181 »

pton_xd wrote: post #12

What did they think would happen? Installing surveillance systems to monitor people is acceptable, as long as they're only used against the majority? I don't understand the logic here.

You don't understand why they may want surveillance to curb or investigate violent crime, but not why they oppose surveillance used by the Gestapo to kidnap members of their community? Seriously?

It's like saying I'm hypocritical for loving to write with pencils but being offended when someone else stabs me with one.

> Bro, you said you liked pencils, make up your mind!

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#83

Post by cipehr »

dylan604 wrote: post #75
cipehr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its an interesting question indeed. You're saying there might be some expectation of privacy even in public? The line here is a little different. I could point a camera out my window and record every license plate that drives by my house, and that would be allowed because its recording public activities, and the data I collect would be private—its mine from my camera. The question here is if a public/government agenc…

> The question here is if a public/government agency pays a private company to setup cameras in public, for the benefit of the public, then should that data collected by those cameras not also be public? This is how NASA operates with the data/images collected from the tax payer funded operations it runs. There is a period of exclusivity allowed for some projects to allow the people to work with the data, but anybody…

Awesome, thank you for the input. I suspected NASA was operating this way, but I had no idea there was a period of exclusivity. In the case of NASA, the private companies are those like JPL and the sorts I guess?

I assume it is/was similar with other data collected, like weather data/radar, oceanic current/buoy data, etc?

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#84

Post by Tadpole9181 »

karmakaze wrote: post #78
estearum wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand the logic of "there are some crime problems we're willing to accept more intrusions to solve than other crime problems?" Seems like something virtually everyone believes, and all that changes is where they draw the line of balance between intrusion and safety.

The point is that there is no actual line. There's the premise which then collects the data. Then the data can be used for other purposes--no line prevents this.

Weird. There's an article right here showing them turning off the cameras when the line was crossed and now that data can't be used the way they don't want.

So clearly we're allowed more nuanced takes than you think.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#85

Post by gwbas1c »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #36

[flagged]

> No matter what, the whole ICE acting like the SS thing will only result in more illegal migration in the long term, like a lot more.

I don't follow. Illegal immigration into the US is down right now. So, how did you arrive at that conclusion?

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#86

Post by aerostable_slug »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #48
ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>when they can just cross the border This is also a choice for the people in charge of the border. Enforcing a border is a solved problem for a rich, large-population nation.

It isn't. 2/3rds of illegal immigrants come to the US legally (and then overstay). Unless you make it illegal for non-citizens to visit the US, you can't stop most illegal immigration.

We can start with that 1/3rd. Then we remove as many economic incentives as possible to make overstaying visas that much less attractive to tackle the other 2/3rds.

It's weird to see people (perhaps not you specifically) who often support dramatic gun control measures to address a tiny percentage of crime among the first to trot out the old saw that only a relative fraction of illegal migrants got that way by an illegal border crossing. 1/3rd is a lot. 1/3rd is a great start.

Addressing that 1/3rd also would address the real edge cases (as in there are only a few of them) like terrorists and serial criminals.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#87

Post by theultdev »

ReflectedImage wrote: post #35
ls612 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the sorts of ICE actions that are causing this controversy only have political support because the US immigration laws have been flouted for 30+ years. Regardless of what you or I think of it it’s the reality that lots of the electorate wants deportations and lots of them and that likely isn’t true in a world where the laws on the books were more strictly enforced in the past.

But if they hadn't been flouted, the US would be a dirt farm specializing in the farming and production of dirt. Hacker news wouldn't even exist.

[flagged]

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#89

Post by genericone »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #17
focusgroup0 wrote: post #7

[flagged]

[flagged]

Excessive speeders in the absence of speed-limit enforcement just creates neighbors that don't mind their neighborhood being consumed by speed bumps/dips, I think there's an analogy here in residential areas. And if you have a lot of children in your neighborhood, there IS a 'xx-phobia' for speeders. But speed bumps and dips are an absolute nuisance and sometimes dangerous, so just having cameras identify and a system willing to punish speeders would absolutely be the preference.
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