What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine? • Hacker News Board

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#81

Post by poszlem » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 1:34 PM UTC

nxor wrote: post #71

everdrive wrote: post #67

It's important to understand that we could genuinely lose general purpose computing. I don't think it's in serious danger at the moment, but we've been in the midst of a slide in that direction for the last 10-15 years. Part of it is mobile phones, part of it is TPM, part of it is market forces. The latest turn is strictly political. We've really foolishly built the technology necessary for authoritarianism just a fe…

[flagged]

Don’t think of it as one side against the other. It’s a dialectical process, two extremes, like communists and fascists, seemingly locked in mortal opposition, yet through their struggle, pushing the same totalitarian machinery forward. That old pattern feels disturbingly familiar today.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#82

Post by nemomarx » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 1:34 PM UTC

jolmg wrote: post #65

fsf4alltemp wrote: post #60

This idea that protecting users is worth the cost of giving up your ownership rights is fallacious. Protecting 1 million grannies is an entirely different risk class than the security implications of stopping everyone from using their devices as they see fit. Protecting 1 million grannies means everyone loses ability to install apps that: -allow encrypted chat -allow use of privacy respecting software -download art/g…

> To access [...] health services in my country, I require a mobile device that is remote attested by either Apple or Google I knew of banks, but how is it that health services need remote attested mobile devices? Do clinics not support setting appointments through calls anymore, or what?

it's usually to see the results of your lab work, message doctors about refills, etc. You'd probably be able to get some of that mailed instead at the cost of time certainly.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#83

Post by gjsman-1000 » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 1:35 PM UTC

iamnothere wrote: post #76

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The future is likely bifurcated trust: Official, encrypted, attested systems; and unofficial, unencrypted, unattested systems. The GNU freedoms never specified the right to run free software side by side with proprietary software on the same hardware; so the FSF should actually be fine with such an outcome.

The problem with bifurcated trust is the ongoing efforts to force people into carrying a “trusted” pocket spy. Cashless payments, mobile train tickets, and digital ID are making it extremely difficult to live without a pocket spy in some places. If my bank requires me to use a phone for transfers (mine doesn’t), it might be acceptable to leave one in a desk drawer powered off as you would do with a hardware authentic…

Then get a law passed. Today.

Or… acknowledge this is a fear of a future 30, 40, 50 years away that may never happen, which is never an argument.

It’s like saying the government, because they have power, and the SCOTUS, because they have power, could decide to kill all children. Yes, they could. No, it’s absurd to let that power keep you up at night, or say the solution is to abolish their power.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#84

Post by Bender » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 1:38 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #56

bombcar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not universally true; even today in some states there are areas (and perhaps even entire states) where building codes do not apply, sometimes even to the main structure. Often you only need to comply over a certain size, for human habitation, or to connect to utilities. The best argument “for” building codes is the same as “for” secure platforms; that people should be able to expect a certain level of compete…

Regulations are at least as old as Code of Hammurabi, naturally they have become less drastic throughout the centuries.

The codes exist but I think what they are saying is that in some places codes are not enforced or even checked. I live in somewhat of a "middle ground" where codes do exist and electrical is checked on a brand new build. They will also nag about septic inspections but will never actually get off their butts and do the inspection. Many such places do exist but they are usually places I would never want to reside. I know of places that I can literally build anything and never once be nagged by inspectors or state/county governments. They are happy enough and lazy enough to receive the property tax revenue.

I have mixed feelings about unenforced regulations. Having unenforced regulations opens up the possibility of targeted abuse of any individuals that are not a cultural fit in the eyes of the government offices and being very relaxed regarding anyone that fits in. This also drives the need for very detailed and expensive inspections prior to purchasing a home and that is a loaded topic all by itself.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#85

Post by baq » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 1:41 PM UTC

bayindirh wrote: post #37

khalic wrote: post #4

I was there, 3000 years ago, when we started ringing the bell about “trusted computing”. Honestly it’s not as bad as I expected

I have an ugly hunch that systemd gonna be Google Play Services of Linux at some point. I beg history to prove me wrong. For anyone interested, please look at Hardware attestation and TiVoization, thanks.

it's in the name, but it's open source and it's replacing a hodgepodge of other stuff (the point isn't why it's replacing it, or how well it's going; the point is there are replacements).

if the computer won't allow to install or use other software until you install a vendor-signed version of systemd on a vendor-signed kernel we'll be there. it's about hardware attestation, not signed software, though.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#86

Post by iamnothere » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 1:42 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #83

iamnothere wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with bifurcated trust is the ongoing efforts to force people into carrying a “trusted” pocket spy. Cashless payments, mobile train tickets, and digital ID are making it extremely difficult to live without a pocket spy in some places. If my bank requires me to use a phone for transfers (mine doesn’t), it might be acceptable to leave one in a desk drawer powered off as you would do with a hardware authentic…

Then get a law passed. Today. Or… acknowledge this is a fear of a future 30, 40, 50 years away that may never happen, which is never an argument. It’s like saying the government, because they have power, and the SCOTUS, because they have power, could decide to kill all children. Yes, they could. No, it’s absurd to let that power keep you up at night, or say the solution is to abolish their power.

> Then get a law passed. Today.

Ha! Let me know how to achieve that and I will. I’ve advocated, donated, and volunteered for years on behalf of a number of causes, some with excellent organizations promoting them, and yet things continue to get worse. The only minor victories have been temporary delays of bad policy.

No, the best response for the average citizen is stubborn noncompliance and constant passive resistance. Drag your feet until the whole thing comes crashing down. And encourage your friends to do it too! (But don’t stop trying through conventional politics, maybe one day it will work. Just don’t get your hopes up.)

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#87

Post by netdevphoenix » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 1:44 PM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #74

netdevphoenix wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roms face a different problem: bootloader locking. But the more Android changes drastically, the harder it is to integrate the AOSP changes into the different open projects

> Roms face a different problem: bootloader locking. Is that a problem these days? It was over a decade ago that I last needed to jailbreak a phone, nowadays it’s just "I’d like to unlock" "Ok".

It is actually getting worse over time imo. In the days of Froyo, you could run Cyanogen easy without needing keys from anyone. Now you got to go to your manufacturer's website to get the key needed to unlock it. Even after you bought the device, you are reliant on the goodwill of the manufacturer to get the unlocking key.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#88

Post by bayindirh » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 1:45 PM UTC

baq wrote: post #85

bayindirh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an ugly hunch that systemd gonna be Google Play Services of Linux at some point. I beg history to prove me wrong. For anyone interested, please look at Hardware attestation and TiVoization, thanks.

it's in the name, but it's open source and it's replacing a hodgepodge of other stuff (the point isn't why it's replacing it, or how well it's going; the point is there are replacements). if the computer won't allow to install or use other software until you install a vendor-signed version of systemd on a vendor-signed kernel we'll be there. it's about hardware attestation, not signed software, though.

What it bothers me is the possibility of TiVoization via Kernel and systemd, actually.

Combined with uutils, which is MIT, you can build a nice (!) walled garden.

Let me say I have seen enough shenanigans over the years.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#89

Post by symbogra » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 1:45 PM UTC

bayindirh wrote: post #37

khalic wrote: post #4

I was there, 3000 years ago, when we started ringing the bell about “trusted computing”. Honestly it’s not as bad as I expected

I have an ugly hunch that systemd gonna be Google Play Services of Linux at some point. I beg history to prove me wrong. For anyone interested, please look at Hardware attestation and TiVoization, thanks.

This is a bizarre comment for an open source init system

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#90

Post by gjsman-1000 » Mon, Oct 27, 2025, 1:45 PM UTC

iamnothere wrote: post #86

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then get a law passed. Today. Or… acknowledge this is a fear of a future 30, 40, 50 years away that may never happen, which is never an argument. It’s like saying the government, because they have power, and the SCOTUS, because they have power, could decide to kill all children. Yes, they could. No, it’s absurd to let that power keep you up at night, or say the solution is to abolish their power.

> Then get a law passed. Today. Ha! Let me know how to achieve that and I will. I’ve advocated, donated, and volunteered for years on behalf of a number of causes, some with excellent organizations promoting them, and yet things continue to get worse. The only minor victories have been temporary delays of bad policy. No, the best response for the average citizen is stubborn noncompliance and constant passive resistan…

You can’t pass a law; because you have almost no bad examples to point to. Emulators, something that happened on the other side of the world, and piracy aren’t arguments.

The banning of Parler did more for activism and awareness regarding platform control than all FOSDEM. Of course, HN happily piled on in favor of this decision, missing the moment to build common ground on platform control, for the sake of political expediency.

If the government, or tech, starts regulating out things people actually care about, then you’ll have your sway. The rush to technical solutions seems to imply we already internally agree tech and government aren’t going to do anything the average person cares about - as it assumes the “bad future” can happen without a national policy discussion anywhere.