Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Poison, Poison Everywhere

loeber.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 211 posts

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#81

Post by BrenBarn »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #37
teddyh wrote: post #6

Empowering individuals to solve collective problems rarely work. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31178680 > The appropriate solution is legislation.

That's not a solution. There is no practical solution for this, and has not been for the millennia on human history; it's only been in the recent decades where we've been able the hallucinate about knowing about toxins in our daily lives. Legislation is just paper, you have no enforcement mechanism beyond what you already have currently: suing companies on a case by case basis.

> Legislation is just paper, you have no enforcement mechanism beyond what you already have currently: suing companies on a case by case basis.

Well, you can have a better enforcement mechanism then. One that involves things like fines and jail time for executives of companies that perpetrate harms on the public via their products.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#82

Post by BrenBarn »

noduerme wrote: post #69
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is straight up evil at this point. People have pointed out they are selling fake fuses that have most likely gotten people killed, Amazon has done nothing. I am sure the same is occurring across other product categories like your example. The 'luxury' you are talking about was called Brands, with the idea being that a company's Brand was worth more than lure of profits/shortcuts that could result in ruining th…

>> The 'luxury' you are talking about was called Brands I dunno. Branding was my gig for a long time. I think brands were a weak substitute for artisans / bespoke makers who had to personally stand by their work. Once upon a time there was a guy named Levi Strauss who made sturdy jeans, some guy named McDonald who made good hamburgers, a couple guys named Johnson who sold talcum powder. And that guy Nobel who invente…

> I think brands were a weak substitute for artisans / bespoke makers who had to personally stand by their work.

Another way to say that is "companies are too big". When companies become big enough that they don't have to worry about the repercussions of screwing over their customers, they're too big.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#84

Post by cakealert »

hiddencost wrote: post #58
Ferret7446 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a solution. There is no practical solution for this, and has not been for the millennia on human history; it's only been in the recent decades where we've been able the hallucinate about knowing about toxins in our daily lives. Legislation is just paper, you have no enforcement mechanism beyond what you already have currently: suing companies on a case by case basis.

Uh, it used to be until it was gutted in the last 30 years. Legislation and bureaucracy has been one of the most successful interventions for public health for centuries. Read about the hole in the ozone layer. Banning lead paint. Read about the invention of public water authorities. Read Silent Spring and read about its aftermath. Look into the history of air pollution and the EPA. These are some of the crown jewels…

There has never been a point where tipping point public demand for regulation did not lead to regulation (if it was for example unconstitutional to regulate). Which makes the assertion that regulation is the solution unprovable.

If the FDA never got established, would firms emerge that put their seals of approval on medicine and become trusted? We will never know. It's pointless to point out what happened before the FDA and after because these are not random samples, the FDA didn't get randomly created. The demand for the FDA if denied would have transformed into the demand for something else.

We will also never know the progress in medicine we lost due to the red tape. There would of certainly been scandals and deaths, but if we got a cancer cure as a result would it not have been worth it?

I suspect that if regulation was not a feature of government we would of solved it in other ways, such as the ability to pierce the corporate veil both civilly and criminally for gross negligence etc. And third parties whose only product is trust - these parties would have infinitely more incentive to preserve that trust than governments.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#86

Post by k9294 »

lr4444lr wrote: post #3

This is precisely why I happily pay for an annual subscription to ConsumerLab[0]. It's largely just for supplements and a few functional foods, but with a tiny staff they are doing more work to help the public on the unregulated medicine market than the entire FDA, IMHO. [0] https://www.consumerlab.com/

Also, a happy customer of the consumerlab. Highly recommend the product.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#87

Post by bad_username »

teddyh wrote: post #6

Empowering individuals to solve collective problems rarely work. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31178680 > The appropriate solution is legislation.

This mindset is dangerous - "weak individuals, you better let the strong benevolent government solve your problems".

The appropriate solution is legislation AND individual empowerment.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#88

Post by Ferret7446 »

nbngeorcjhe wrote: post #45
Ferret7446 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a solution. There is no practical solution for this, and has not been for the millennia on human history; it's only been in the recent decades where we've been able the hallucinate about knowing about toxins in our daily lives. Legislation is just paper, you have no enforcement mechanism beyond what you already have currently: suing companies on a case by case basis.

[flagged]

No amount of legislation will make it practical to do comprehensive chemical tests on every single domestic and imported product, or do comprehensive safety studies on every single chemical used in such products, or to handle the legal proceedings to prosecute all violations. Our society does not have the resources to sustain the incomprehensibly large regulatory and compliance industry needed to enforce a shadow of such legislation.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#89

Post by coppsilgold »

Bloodletting is a solution. Donate blood as frequently as they allow you. Plasma donation works even better (higher frequency) if you trust the machines and the process.

Sadly, it's not a complete solution as some harmful substances bio-accumulate in other tissues. A benefit may be had regardless as some substances leach back into the blood if the concentration gradient is sufficient.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#90

Post by k9294 »

gurghet wrote: post #83

i live in Europe and the public discourse around this is always very high and i don't think we have 1/10 of the problems in the article, but maybe I'm lulu

I live in EU, and oh boy you are wrong. Same crap on the shelves, same crap on marketplaces, same supplements brands, etc etc (I live in Portugal).
Post reply on HN