Earlier quoted context omitted.
One-shot generations? Multi-track stem generation? Use of Suno at all in the process of composition? Is slop a function defined by the tool or the users level of effort in using it?
Don't bother, the slop line has been drawn in the sand and people will stay on their side. I also think that slop is low effort and/or low/zero iteration output, but beyond that the sloppiness fades away, but good luck convincing the hardcore slop hunters to see things in a nuanced way (in before ocean boiling, that's usually where that argument goes next).
How AI gave me my voice back – an artist's review of Suno Studio
81–90 of 115 posts
Re: How AI gave me my voice back – an artist's review of Suno Studio
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’d describe it by and large at this stage as a possible mental health crisis developing.
I think that's almost unfair, to say someone can't feel feelings without being labeled as part of a "mental health crisis". Just because you and I don't understand it doesn't mean it's inherently bad. I mean I think it probably could be bad, but not just because I don't understand how they're feeling those feelings. But I wouldn't label those people "sick", feels borderline disrespectful.
An LLM cannot love somebody because it is not a person or otherwise sentient/capable of a relationship. You cannot be in love with it. Loving your dog is one thing. Being in love with your dog is another. This is because nearly everyone understands that that kind of love cannot be reciprocated and a human being cannot be in romantic love with a dog. A dog for its part can’t even consent to that relationship. Neither can a computer (possibly “yet”).
I would say, generally speaking, somebody who does not understand an LLM is incapable of reciprocating love (or any real “feelings” indicating a real relationship) and who has been told what an LLM is (and understands it more or less) is likely somebody who needs to talk to a therapist. If I said this about somebody being in love with their pet nobody would call it “borderline disrespectful.”
> you'll see that many people claim to perfectly well understand how it works, some of them even being software developers themselves, yet they still describe what they feel as "love"
This statement is what prompted me to comment. Like I said above if someone knows what an LLM is (and presumably isn’t) then it’s very concerning that they still believe a romantic, consensual, reciprocated relationship is possible. If you didn’t have that part then I would say “it can also be an education problem.” But the premise you set entirely removes any need to qualify that and makes this situation all the more concerning. Your phrasing makes me think you think that makes it better, but IMO it makes the situation worse.
For emphasis: you established that these people more or less understand what they are interacting with, yet choose to pursue a “relationship” with an LLM anyway. This is incredibly troubling behavior in this context with far reaching mental health implications.
Let me just ask you point blank: do you think LLM’s are sentient/akin to people? Do you think someone is capable of being in a loving, healthy relationship with an LLM today? Because to me it’s at best a potentially harmful misunderstanding that can be clarified with education and at worst…well, like I said, the possibilities can be very deeply troubling. But ultimately my point is it can’t be a real, consensual, reciprocated relationship. It simply can’t. That’s not “lack of understanding,” that’s reality.
Re: How AI gave me my voice back – an artist's review of Suno Studio
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't bother, the slop line has been drawn in the sand and people will stay on their side. I also think that slop is low effort and/or low/zero iteration output, but beyond that the sloppiness fades away, but good luck convincing the hardcore slop hunters to see things in a nuanced way (in before ocean boiling, that's usually where that argument goes next).
I don't think I'm a hardcore slop hunter really. Suno was fun to play with, what comes out feels icky though. Perhaps that is because it is low effort though, my attempts certainly were.
Funnily enough, slop AI video I still get entertainment value out of, just because it's often so bizarre and absurd.
Re: How AI gave me my voice back – an artist's review of Suno Studio
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean sure, if you ignore all the negative externalities then it is a net gain for everyone.
That doesn't address my comment on the elderly.
Makes journalism even more useless, ruining democracy for the rest of us.
Decimating all other artistic livelihoods, putting more strain on society.
Sure all these things have already been happening. But again, I am dumbfounded that a lot of people are actually saying “yes, let’s make all of that worse exponentially. Being able to do “fun thing” at the speed of thought is worthy tradeoff”.
Everyday at $work me and my colleagues put a lot of effort into deciding what tool/framework/architecture to use, listing all tradeoffs and deciding the most appropriate one. I’m sure a lot of people on this forum do this every day too. I don’t understand why those same people don’t put the same effort to make the same thoughtful decisions on the thing that _actually_ _actually_ matters.
Re: How AI gave me my voice back – an artist's review of Suno Studio
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
That doesn't address my comment on the elderly.
Makes online scams more realistic, which are predominantly targeted at the elderly. Makes journalism even more useless, ruining democracy for the rest of us. Decimating all other artistic livelihoods, putting more strain on society. Sure all these things have already been happening. But again, I am dumbfounded that a lot of people are actually saying “yes, let’s make all of that worse exponentially. Being able to do…
Re: How AI gave me my voice back – an artist's review of Suno Studio
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
One-shot generations? Multi-track stem generation? Use of Suno at all in the process of composition? Is slop a function defined by the tool or the users level of effort in using it?
That is an interesting point. I am not sure how to define Slop. I am 100% sure you could use Suno for something that doesn't feel horrible. I tried and failed bad. But maybe it is possible. Typically I just hear on the surface song like audio but without anything to make me care about the song at all.
The issue I raise is that we can critique the users of it without discarding the tool as used by an artist who produces something that is not slop with it.
Re: How AI gave me my voice back – an artist's review of Suno Studio
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are delusional or misinformed: suno's model cannot possibly be aware of how AI is being treated . It is not informed of this information, it's not even informed about previous times it was invoked, it's wholly amnesiac.
> suno's model cannot possibly be aware of how AI is being treated I don't know exactly what training material went into Suno's models, but if it includes random collections of text from the internet, it could very well have included "man, AI is fucking stupid and I treat it as such" in it's training datasets. Now I won't claim that that suddenly makes the models "aware" of it, because surely we'll understand "aware"…
Re: How AI gave me my voice back – an artist's review of Suno Studio
#88Re: How AI gave me my voice back – an artist's review of Suno Studio
#89My honest review, as a musician who has spent many years of my life making music and both giving and receiving blunt critique: Stunningly mediocre. Worthy of a Pitchfork 1/10. If your choice truly is between having AI make "art" that you pass off as your own vs not doing so, then please remember that, as a wise man once said, an artist understands the silence that serves as the foundation of creativity. I can't see h…
You can have your opinions, man. The rest of us will keep making and listening to awesome art.
Re: How AI gave me my voice back – an artist's review of Suno Studio
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that's almost unfair, to say someone can't feel feelings without being labeled as part of a "mental health crisis". Just because you and I don't understand it doesn't mean it's inherently bad. I mean I think it probably could be bad, but not just because I don't understand how they're feeling those feelings. But I wouldn't label those people "sick", feels borderline disrespectful.
I think it’s pretty fair and I was not being quite as absolutist as you’re making my statement out to be. I said by and large it is a possible mental health crisis developing (or an existing one being expressed which I omitted). There are other possibilities, most of which I would say fall under “this person just doesn’t understand what an LLM is/isn’t and why it can’t engage in a consensual relationship.” I also did…
I think you have to ask those questions to someone else/somewhere else, I'm not saying I'm in love with an LLM or even that I understand how the people who say there are, you're gonna have to ask them those questions. I was merely describing thoughts and writings of others, and my perspective of what I've read, I don't have personal experience about those feelings.
And seemingly I think it's the same for you, and neither of us can tell another human "You cannot be in love with it", that's just not how feelings work. You can say you don't understand it, ask them questions about it or whatever, but you cannot prescribe what feelings they should or shouldn't have.
I think I have a moderate understanding of how LLMs work, I'm currently sitting and building my own GPT-OSS implementation in Rust and Cuda, so I like to think I know bits and bobs about it. But even so, I'm not going around telling people what is or isn't true in regards to their feelings, especially not when I have 0 experience of what they're going through. You might want to take a step back and maybe ponder if it would be wise for you to do the same.
> But ultimately my point is it can’t be a real, consensual, reciprocated relationship.
I do agree with that, but that doesn't mean that someone could still feel like they're in love with something, even though they know it cannot be reciprocated. If they're feeling that they're in love with something, then that's what they're feeling.