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React vs. Backbone in 2025

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Re: React vs. Backbone in 2025

#81

Post by remixff2400 »

picardo wrote: post #47
azangru wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could argue that the real innovation of React was "unidirectional data flow" Isn't this just how the DOM works? Data flows down through attributes and properties; events bubble up? > but React team made Flow architecture central to the framework Didn't they call it Flux rather than Flow?

> Didn't they call it Flux rather than Flow? Ah, you may be right. It's been a long time.

Flow was a type checker (used to be Typescript vs. Flow debates early on before Typescript ended up with more support), Flux was the unidirectional data flow architecture.

Re: React vs. Backbone in 2025

#82

Post by afavour »

ZvG_Bonjwa wrote: post #77
afavour wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that kind of criticism is a reaction to the lack of critical examination of the industry standards. I don’t think React is straight up bad by any means but I do think it is chosen unthinkingly in scenarios where it isn’t necessary. And what of Preact? It’s a 3kb library (compared to > 100KB for React) and is a drop in replacement for probably over 90% of React sites. That wastefulness speaks to an inattention…

There is some good food for thought here. One thing I’ll also say: building static websites and building big interactive web apps are two points on a LONG spectrum. Yet for some reason online discourse ignores this. This enormous spectrum gets compressed into just “modern web dev” or “JavaScript”. Not just in conversation, but in teaching materials, job postings, you name it. It leads to wild disconnects and disagree…

100% agreed. If you’re making Gmail the extra bulk of React is an afterthought in the context of a giant web app. But when you’re building a mostly static marketing site and don’t consider what’s going to get the thing to load as quickly as possible you’re not prioritising the right things, IMO.

Re: React vs. Backbone in 2025

#83

Post by wooque »

picardo wrote: post #28

> For massive apps with 1,000 components on the same page, maybe React's complexity is justified. But what the other 99% of apps? The number of components is not the only yardstick of complexity. Most of the complexity in building a UI comes from state management and how state changes are propagated across the store and the UI. I worked with Backbone for many years, and I can distinctly recall the hours of frustratio…

>which had bidirectional data flow, and when one updated the store, it would trigger a change to the UI, which would change the state store, which would change the UI, etc.

You can hit the same problem with React. Circular state updates. State change->trigger useEffect->change state. I hit those when I had just started React.

Re: React vs. Backbone in 2025

#84

Post by [deleted] »

patcon wrote: post #45

I've worked around a medium-sized and storied backbone project that (for good reason) didn't have time to "get things right" and hoooooo boy can it get complex and spaghetti.[1] Compared to my confusion making sense of that project, I simply cannot imagine getting so confused orienting in a React project, even if it were done by an inexperienced person. It seems to me that the "extra" abstractions of React compel you…

[deleted]

Re: React vs. Backbone in 2025

#85

Post by DangitBobby »

codingdave wrote: post #70
zarzavat wrote: post #62

There should be a name for the fallacy: "You don't need React to do therefore you don't need React". Let's just call it "the React fallacy" because everybody always picks on React. It's like judging a programming language based on the length of its Hello World program. The reason I use React for simple things is because I also use React for complex things which require it (or another framework of equivalent power), a…

> The reason I use React for simple things is because I also use React for complex things which require it... The reason I drive my 18-wheeled semi truck to the local store is because I also drive my 18-wheeled semi truck when hauling cargo across the country, and I don't want to use multiple vehicles. /s Fallacies can exist in both directions. "Use the right tool for the job" is good advice.

Your comparison doesn't make any sense because React is just fine for small apps. You're yelling at someone over using their car instead of roller skates to get groceries.

Re: React vs. Backbone in 2025

#86

Post by lmm »

wooque wrote: post #83
picardo wrote: post #28

> For massive apps with 1,000 components on the same page, maybe React's complexity is justified. But what the other 99% of apps? The number of components is not the only yardstick of complexity. Most of the complexity in building a UI comes from state management and how state changes are propagated across the store and the UI. I worked with Backbone for many years, and I can distinctly recall the hours of frustratio…

>which had bidirectional data flow, and when one updated the store, it would trigger a change to the UI, which would change the state store, which would change the UI, etc. You can hit the same problem with React. Circular state updates. State change->trigger useEffect->change state. I hit those when I had just started React.

You can, but it's harder, React will at least nudge you away from doing that.

Re: React vs. Backbone in 2025

#87

Post by Vipsy »

I think some of the React vs Backbone debate misses how web projects often evolve in unpredictable ways. Most 'tiny' apps pick up complexity as features are added. So it's useful to build on a platform that scales smoothly and encourages best practices and grows with you.

React has become that platform that it is because teams can reliably ship, maintain the codebase and onboard new folks. Preference for 'right tool for the job' is good but real life means sticking to tools that won't bite you a year later.

Re: React vs. Backbone in 2025

#88

Post by DangitBobby »

comrade1234 wrote: post #20

Does react still mess up the DOM and, for example, using Google Translate? I do use react but only for very specific well-defined reusable components and I use js events to message them. I try to keep it as simple as possible. I can't imagine creating an entire site with react.

Using something like react-router or TanStack router makes building an entire site a piece of cake.

Re: React vs. Backbone in 2025

#90

Post by igtztorrero »

We left Backbone for Vue in 2018, due to its simplicity and ease of component manufacturing. I'm surprised to learn that Backbone still exists. Maybe I should revisit it.

I remembered why we left, I hate handle 'this' in JavaScript :)

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