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How the brain's activity, energy use and blood flow change as people fall asleep

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Re: How the brain's activity, energy use and blood flow change as people fall asleep

#81

During my 20s I developed a severe insomnia, probably due to not knowing how to handle stress. It was so bad that I had to go to the ER because I haven't had any sleep in days and didn't know what else to do. They gave me ambien and it helped at the time, but I knew that it was not something to take long term. I then started to experiment with various methods to help me fall asleep and sleep hygene such as hot/cold s…

Would be interesting to know why yawning induces sleep at all.

Re: How the brain's activity, energy use and blood flow change as people fall asleep

#82

During my 20s I developed a severe insomnia, probably due to not knowing how to handle stress. It was so bad that I had to go to the ER because I haven't had any sleep in days and didn't know what else to do. They gave me ambien and it helped at the time, but I knew that it was not something to take long term. I then started to experiment with various methods to help me fall asleep and sleep hygene such as hot/cold s…

Would be interesting to know why yawning induces sleep at all.

My psych pointed out that yawning is a tension release mechanism, so it’s likely just punting a bunch of cortisol from your nervous system

Re: How the brain's activity, energy use and blood flow change as people fall asleep

#83
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be interesting to know why yawning induces sleep at all.

My psych pointed out that yawning is a tension release mechanism, so it’s likely just punting a bunch of cortisol from your nervous system

I use forced yawning to wet my eyes when they become dry, works better than any drops.

Re: How the brain's activity, energy use and blood flow change as people fall asleep

#84
Interesting study, but it mostly reinforces what we already know about sleep mechanics.

Of particular importance is how sensory regions remain metabolically active while higher-order regions downshift during NREM sleep. That suggests the benefit of sleep depends less on how long we sleep and more on the specific activation and de-activation of networks during sleep.

I work in neurotech/sleeptech as the founder of https://affectablesleep.com. Our stimulation triggers sensory pathways during sleep to enhance the brain’s restorative function without changing sleep time.

This systematic review [1] covers non‐invasive approaches to enhancing slow‐wave activity in sleep and outlines their physiology and effects. This focused paper [2] explores the neurophysiology of closed‐loop auditory stimulation during sleep.

Though the title of the post suggests the study looks at falling asleep, the study is really focused on what happens during NREM sleep, which has been our focus for the last few years.

Of particular interest to me right now are the processes of waking. Research suggests that different neural networks come online in a specific sequence, and when that sequence is disrupted, we experience sleep inertia or the sense of not being fully restored.

[1]https://doi.org/10.1016/j.smrv.2021.101438 [2]https://doi.org/10.1111/ejn.16132

Re: How the brain's activity, energy use and blood flow change as people fall asleep

#85
post #13
post #2

Only slightly related, but I often try to find ways to fall asleep faster. One thing that seems to work in some situations is trying to imagine a void (like a white or gray plane) for a while. However, often enough this does not work and I wonder if anyone knows of tricks that work for her/him (without using Melantonin or other drugs).

There are several things I use: - think of past enjoyable moments (for me it's hiking, I usually don't go very far until I fall to sleep) - box breathing - hold breath for N sec then release, then N+10, then ... - try to relax your body from top to bottom (forehead, eyes, cheeks, mouth, ...) - imagine your body is very light, like your floating in the air - imagine your body is very heavy, like a block of concrete si…

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Re: How the brain's activity, energy use and blood flow change as people fall asleep

#86
post #2

Only slightly related, but I often try to find ways to fall asleep faster. One thing that seems to work in some situations is trying to imagine a void (like a white or gray plane) for a while. However, often enough this does not work and I wonder if anyone knows of tricks that work for her/him (without using Melantonin or other drugs).

I have a routine and the crazy part is that it is 100% effective, in that I can be restless, consciously start the routine, and 100% of the time I fall asleep. It is the oddest feeling to begin the routine, which requires conscious mental effort, and suddenly you can't remember anything because you fell asleep. I can only ever recall doing it at times when my mind is racing, so I can't say how well it works when calm as I forget to do the routine when calm.

The routine is basically a game to see if you can "flow" between mental images by envisioning scenes in your mind and then allowing some object in the scene to "pull" you into a different scene. For example, envision the power cable of your lamp, you fly along the power cable up to the light bulb, and then you envision the bulb glass exploding into a million pieces, which becomes snow falling on a ski lodge, you see the warm glow of fire in the fireplace, and a fireball blasts out the chimney into the sky, somehow becomes a perfect flaming sphere, that becomes a meatball and falls into a plate of spaghetti, you are eating it down, you see yourself at a ratty diner table, under the table you see your shoes, and then your shoes are running through rain puddles, you zoom into a single droplet which is actually a massive aquarium tank, fish are swimming in it except we are in the ocean, not a tank, and the fish is so colorful but those colors are actually an explosion of rainbow paint colors dripping down an apartment wall, etc. etc.

It might sound ridiculous when written in words, but that is the gist of it. The game is to lay there and consciously morph and fly between mental images, letting your mind conjure imagery that comes next.

It's crazy because I start doing this with a conscious struggle to envision the next chain-of-events but suddenly my brain catches on and starts unconsciously playing the game and images just kinda flow and BAM asleep.

Re: How the brain's activity, energy use and blood flow change as people fall asleep

#88
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say “sleep medication” what do you mean specifically? AFAIK melatonin is safe but diphenhydramine overuse is linked to dementia.

I'm still exploring my options, open to suggestions. Medications like zolpidem and diphenhydramine are definitely off the table.

Exploring other z drugs (Lunesta, sonata), Benzos, thc, cbd, trazodone, Doxipin, belsomra, gabapantin, whisky, Dramamine, and herbal additions to higher dose melatonin (10mg+) and magnesium glycinate/threonate, like ashwaganda, valerian, gaba, passionflower, hops, lemonbalm, California poppy, jujube seed, chamomile/apigenin, myoinositol, taurine, higher dose glycine, theanine, 5htp (be careful), tryptophan (be careful), nighttime vitamin d, anti-hypertensives, arginine, supplemental oxygen, nsaids, red light therapy and placebo effects may be worth trying alone or in various combinations.

Re: How the brain's activity, energy use and blood flow change as people fall asleep

#89
I used to think sleep was just like shutting off a computer. But after one night of insomnia, my brain felt foggy all day and I could barely speak clearly. That made me realize sleep is not just about resting the body. I have been trying deep breathing before bed and it seems to help a little.

Re: How the brain's activity, energy use and blood flow change as people fall asleep

#90

I'm pretty sure at this point I have familial advanced sleep phase syndrome of an unknown genetic etiology [1]. Wake up stupid early in the morning, get drowsy very early in the evenings etc. For a long time due to social pressure/habit I'd just power through the evening drowsiness. That lead to me only being able to sleep six hours or so (due to waking up stupid early), which over time lead to a substantial sleep de…

You might know this, but sleep debt doesn't just keep piling on. Eventually, and rather quickly, you may begin to experience permanent brain damage after a few nights of sleep deprivation. https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/STR.0000000000000453 From one insomniac to another... In the past I've been lucky if I get 3 hours total of sleep in a night due to physical pain disorders. I have deep trouble getting into N…

Sorry you’re going through this, that sounds brutal. You mentioned an abusive childhood making things worse; if you’re open to sharing, has anything in therapy (trauma-informed work, CBT, EMDR, etc.) actually helped?

Do you have any take on non-med things like mindfulness/yoga nidra or gentle ambient sound at night? I’m on the fence about starting meditation myself and curious what’s been useful, or not, for you.

And if meds are what’s giving you relief right now, I’m glad you’ve found something that helps.

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