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Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

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Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#81

Post by codyb »

prodigycorp wrote: post #5
Mistletoe wrote: post #2

Between all these recent gambling stories with coaches and players and the Kawhi thing I think I’m done with the NBA. The NBA’s gambling push has done nothing but gross me out. Greed unbridled. They saw the 1919 World Series and said “Let’s bet on this shit.”

This plus a lot of the soft greed. The insistence on a foul-centric game that leads to over 50% longer games, the ridiculous lack of investment on its own broadcast infra, the refusal to shorten the season (which is the longest in pro sports, longer than baseball's season, despite being less than half the games), and the consultant-driven management decisions - I have so much contempt for Adam Silver for making me ha…

That is _nuts_ that the basketball season is longer than the MLB season. I never would have guessed that.

Let's go Jays! Looking forward to this World Series.

Also not a fan of the constant inundation with gambling ads even if they have literally no interest to me. Just seems like a net negative for a society that realized cigarette ads are bad, but can't seem to figure that out for alcohol or gambling.

At least the public education campaigns have started earlier, I definitely see ads talking about where to get help if you're having an issue fairly frequently.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#82

Post by Blackthorn »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #25

This scheme doesn’t really make sense. Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do. Trying to extract slightly more money per hand via x ray tables etc kills the golden goose and doesn’t even necessarily increase total winnings, since it makes you win…

You don't need to play better poker. You can just have multiple people on the same team at the same table and communicating, vastly increasing your odds of your team having the best hand.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#83

Post by empath75 »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #25

This scheme doesn’t really make sense. Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do. Trying to extract slightly more money per hand via x ray tables etc kills the golden goose and doesn’t even necessarily increase total winnings, since it makes you win…

> Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do.

You would be surprised at how good some very wealthy people are at poker. There is a lot of variance in the game and they don't want that. In fact what they want is _exactly_ wealthy people who are quite good at poker because they make big bets and you can reliably bust them out on _one hand_ if you set it up properly after playing a fair game all night. And the great thing about that is that they feel like the night overall was fair and fun, because it was. You just cheat them on one or two hands at the most.

People who are bad at poker can also be quite difficult to reliably take money from fairly because they play randomly and sometimes win huge pots out of complete luck. For one thing, they are near impossible to bluff out of hands, so you end up having to fold a lot more than normal because you can only play with strong hands against them. If you are interested in making a lot of money, you certainly want those strong hands more often than normal.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#84

Post by exasperaited »

rs186 wrote: post #53
Aurornis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The table didn’t actually use X-rays. They’re using X-ray to mean it could be seen through with special cameras, perhaps IR sensitive.

I looked up the term "X-ray table" but couldn't find anything relevant except very recent results about this specific news. Sounds like FBI invented this very stupid/confusing name for the story when they could have used much something much better and clearer. X-ray really has nothing to do with this.

[flagged]

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#85

Post by pavel_lishin »

everdrive wrote: post #75

This is probably a very HN comment, but I cannot imagine why people actually like gambling and poker: - high likelihood you lose money - the point of the game is to lie to friends and strangers - you're stuck sitting at a table and following rules for hours - the only victory condition is that you take money from other people

> - high likelihood you lose money

When I play games like this, I don't bet more than I can afford to lose - and paying $20 to sit at a table with friends playing poker is actually cheaper than going out to a bar with them.

> - the point of the game is to lie to friends and strangers

Are there any games with hidden information that you find interesting? Or any competitive games at all? Things like Werewolf, or Go Fish, or Settlers of Catan? For that matter, even in a game without hidden information, like chess, you're still trying to outwit your opponents.

> - you're stuck sitting at a table and following rules for hours

I mean, you can leave if you're not having fun.

> - the only victory condition is that you take money from other people

But you also spend time with friends.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#86

Post by le-mark »

mb7733 wrote: post #65
Aurornis wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key is a lot of cash, or cryptocurrency. If you run a Jimmy John’s, most of your customers will pay with credit cards. Everything runs through banks. You can’t launder that easily. It’s all traceable. It’s all taxable. Run a poker operation and you can get your marks to give you crypto, cash, or small transfers. $7 million in pure cash and crypto proceeds from a poker game is a lot more valuable than $7 million i…

> If you run a Jimmy John’s, most of your customers will pay with credit cards. Everything runs through banks. You can’t launder that easily. You don't need to launder it, it was acquired legally

Fast food franchises aren’t generating $1M a year either. Ok a McDonald’s in a high traffic area can, but a sandwich shop anywhere? Nope.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#88

Post by btilly »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #25

This scheme doesn’t really make sense. Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do. Trying to extract slightly more money per hand via x ray tables etc kills the golden goose and doesn’t even necessarily increase total winnings, since it makes you win…

The trick isn't winning when the celebrity is at the table, it is in getting the celebrity to the table, then keepong the victim there.

It's not about winning mote on each hand. It's about keeping the target happy as money drains away. And that was their aim.

By controlling the whole game, they were able to psychologically manipulate the situation. The target was at tbe table with someone they respected. Saw others win and lose large amounts of money. Sometimes won themselves.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#89

Post by mattmaroon »

ecshafer wrote: post #61
JohnMakin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“just play better poker” like that’s an easy thing to do in a game of chance and incomplete information, with variance having years or decades long tails. not to mention it’s an unsolved game, so “better” poker doesn’t even really have a set definition and depends on tons of variables. and they literally knew what hole cards were coming - that’s vastly more of an edge than playing “better poker” than someone. Besides…

The FBI is going to take time building up the case, flipping people, getting recordings, and trying to get as many people involved to not just stop the games but hopefully take down the entire crime families involved. LA Poker pros will start talking as soon as they suspect something fishy.

They almost certainly already have done much of this if they’re going public now. What makes it to the media in the beginning is only ever the proverbial tip of the iceberg.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#90

Post by q3k »

everdrive wrote: post #75

This is probably a very HN comment, but I cannot imagine why people actually like gambling and poker: - high likelihood you lose money - the point of the game is to lie to friends and strangers - you're stuck sitting at a table and following rules for hours - the only victory condition is that you take money from other people

because it's very fun
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