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DeepSeek OCR

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Re: DeepSeek OCR

#81
post #65
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Any complex parent table span cell relationship still has low accuracy. Try the reverse, take a complex picture table and ask Chatgpt5, claude Opus 3.1, Gemini Pro 2.5 to produce a HTML table. They will fail.

Maybe my imagination is limited or our documents aren't complex enough, but are we talking about realistic written documents? I'm sure you can take a screenshot of a very complex spreadsheet and it fails, but in that case you already have the data in structured form anyway, no?

> realistic written documents?

Just get a DEF 14A (Annual meeting) filing of a company from SEC EDGAR.

I have seen so many mistakes when looking at the result closely.

Here is a DEF 14A filing from Salseforce. You can print it to a PDF and then try converting.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1108524/000110852425...

Re: DeepSeek OCR

#82
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically not OCR, but HTR (hand-written text/transcript recognition) is still difficult. LLMs have increased accuracy, but their mistakes are very hard to identify because they just 'hallucinate' text they cannot digitize.

Interesting - have you tried sending the image and 'hallucinated' text together to a review LLM to fix mistakes? I don't have a use case of 100s or 1000s of hand-written notes have to be transcribed. I have only done this with whiteboard discussion snapshots and it has worked really well.

Often, the review LLM will also say everything is okay when it’s made up too.

Re: DeepSeek OCR

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can accept that the machine just make up what it doesn't recognize instead of saying "I don't know," then yes it's solved. (I'm not being snarky. It's acceptable in some cases.)

But this was very much the case with existing OCR software as well? I guess the LLMs will end up making up plausible looking text instead of text riddled with errors, which makes it much harder to catch the mistakes, in fairness

Good libraries gave results with embedded confidence levels for each unit recognized.

Re: DeepSeek OCR

#84

I find it interesting that there's all these independent AI-OCR Projects but still no commercial offering. Is it still too inaccurate, too complex or simply too expensive?

I dont know, but maybe existing commercial OCR is still on top, and also using ML. Recently tried a free trial for OCR/reading Sütterlin and it was a weird feeling being so outclassed in reading.

Re: DeepSeek OCR

#85

I find it interesting that there's all these independent AI-OCR Projects but still no commercial offering. Is it still too inaccurate, too complex or simply too expensive?

It is because the AI is not actually doing OCR. It is giving an interpretation of what the text in an image is by ingesting vision tokens and mapping them onto text tokens.

So you either have to be fine with a lot of uncertainty as to the accuracy of that interpretation or you have to wait for an LLM that can do it in a completely reproducible way every time.

Re: DeepSeek OCR

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But naively wouldn't you expect the representation of a piece of text in terms of vision tokens to be roughly the same number of bits (or more) than the representation as textual token? You're changing representation sure, but that by itself doesn't give you any compute advantages unless there is some sparsity/compressability you can take advantage of in the domain you transform to right? So I guess my question is wh…

Vision is how humans see text. So text must have built in adaptations to protect from visual noise. For example, two words that look similar must never appear in similar contexts, or else they would be conflated. Hence we can safely reduce such words to the same token. Or something like that.

Is that really factual/true?

Lots of words have multiple meanings and can mean different things even if used in the same sentence/context just from the interpretation of the person reading it.

Heck, it'd argue that most (not all) dayjob conflicts are down to such differences in interpretation /miscommunications

Re: DeepSeek OCR

#87
post #8

The paper is more interesting than just another VLM for OCR, they start talking about compression and stuff. E.g. there is this quote >Our work represents an initial exploration into the boundaries of vision-text compression, investigating how many vision tokens are required to decode text tokens. The preliminary results are encouraging: DeepSeek-OCR achieves near-lossless OCR compression at approximately 10× ratios,…

Text tokens are quantized and represent subword units, vision tokens only exist in the embedding space.

The way text tokenization works in LLMs is that you have a "lookup table" of (small) token ids to (large) vector embeddings. To pass text to the LLM, you split it at token boundaries, convert strings to token ids, and then construct the "context", a matrix where each row is a vector taken from that lookup table.

Transmitting text token sequences can be relatively efficient, you just transmit the token IDs themselves[1]. They're small integers (~100k possible token ids is typical for large models). Transmitting the actual embeddings matrix would be far less efficient, as embeddings often consist of thousands of floating point numbers.

Images are encoded differently. After some basic preprocessing, image data is passed straight to a neural- network-based image encoder. That encoder encodes the image into vectors, which are then appended to the context. There are no token ids, there's no lookup table, we go straight from image data to token embeddings.

This means transmitting image tokens cannot be done as efficiently, as you'd have to transmit the embeddings themselves. Even though an image is encoded in fewer tokens, the most efficient representation of those tokens takes more bytes.

You can think of a text token as an integer between 0 and n, which we know how to map to a vector. This means you have `n` possible choices of tokens. In contrast, an image token is an array of m floating point numbers (the vector itself), each of which can take on many possible values. This means the "token space" of vision tokens is actually much larger.

There's also the issue of patterns. Text tokens correspond directly to a contiguous span of UTF-8 bytes, and most tokenizers won't create tokens that span word boundaries. This means they can't encode global patterns efficiently. You can't have a "Hamlet's monologue" or "the text that follows is in Spanish" token.

Re: DeepSeek OCR

#88
post #42

My impression is that OCR is basically solved at this point. The OmniAI benchmark that's also referenced here wasn't updated with new models since February 2025. I assume that's because general purpose LLMs have gotten better at OCR than their own OCR product. I've been able to solve a broad range of OCR tasks by simply sending each page as an image to Gemini 2.5 Flash Lite and asking it nicely to extract the content…

Complex documents is where OCR struggles mightily. If you have a simple document with paragraphs of text, sure OCR is pretty solved. If you have a complex layout with figures and graphs and supporting images and asides and captions and so on (basically any paper, or even trade documents), it absolutely falls apart.

And GP LLMs are heinous at OCR. If you are having success with FL, your documents must be incredibly simple.

There has been enormous advances in OCR over the past 6 months, so the SoTa is a moving, rapidly advancing target.

Re: DeepSeek OCR

#89
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically not OCR, but HTR (hand-written text/transcript recognition) is still difficult. LLMs have increased accuracy, but their mistakes are very hard to identify because they just 'hallucinate' text they cannot digitize.

We ran a small experiment internally on this and it looked like Gemini is better at handwriting recognition than I am. After seeing what it parsed, I was like "oh yeah, that's right". I do agree that instead of saying "Sorry, I can't read that" it just made up something.

I have a thought that whilst LLM providers can say "Sorry" - there is little incentive and it will expose the reality that they are not very accurate, nor can be properly measured. That said, there clearly are use cases where if the LLM can't a certain level of confidence it should refer to the user, rather than guessing.

Re: DeepSeek OCR

#90
post #30
post #19

How does an LLM approach to OCR compare to say Azure AI Document Intelligence ( https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/ai-services/document... ) or Google's Vision API ( https://cloud.google.com/vision?hl=en )?

OmniAI has a benchmark that companies LLMs to cloud OCR services. https://getomni.ai/blog/ocr-benchmark (Feb 2025) Please note that LLMs progressed at a rapid pace since Feb. We see much better results with the Qwen3-VL family, particularly Qwen3-VL-235B-A22B-Instruct for our use-case.

Magistral-Small-2509 is pretty neat as well for its size, has reasoning + multimodality, which helps in some cases where context isn't immediately clear, or there are few missing spots.
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