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How to Enter a City Like a King

worldhistory.substack.com

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Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#81

Post by tooheavy »

mmooss wrote: post #57
tooheavy wrote: post #9

Does anyone know the literature on adding people or individuals to groups, even an individual to a city? And the implications or outcomes of adding individuals of differing characteristics, potential for power, wealth, success, status, displacement, influence, or any number of other qualities, etc. I suspect this highlights fundamental elements of our social nature, our culture and societies, their values and problem…

Could you give us a concrete example of what you are referring to?

There are probably many ways to slice or unpack the topic, and it can probably be approached at least partially from many different perspectives in different disciplines, but it may be captured reasonably well under the study of social dynamics. I will leave specific scenarios to the imagination, experience, or history, however, but I did cite at least one example in the original comment.

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#82

Post by AnimalMuppet »

rurban wrote: post #75
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? He came armed with swords? (I mean, yes, his followers had two "swords" - which may have been something far less than military swords. One of them used one when Jesus was arrested, and got rebuked for it.) No, he didn't come to militarily overthrow the priestship.

We don't know that exactly, because that was left out conveniently from the scripts. I rely solely on historians

OK, show me your historian source for "But Jesus was executed because he came armed with swords, after spending 2 years in the north building up his group in Lebanon, wanting to overthrow the local priestship."

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#83

Post by IAmBroom »

Pinus wrote: post #23

I thought there was something about the king of the UK having to ask permission to enter the City of London, but apparently that is a misunderstanding ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London_Corporation#Tem... ). Pity, it would have been a good story of even monarchy bowing to finance! =)

The Sovereign does have to ask permission to enter Parliament, however. It's observed in a ritual, twice-repeated refusal before every speech before Parliament.

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#84

Post by sunrunner »

card_zero wrote: post #65
sunrunner wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody knows for sure which parts are bullshit I'm pretty sure it's all bullshit and the universe is just random chaos, unless you could convince everyone that there's some kind of objective higher purpose that they all should be striving towards. People just figure out which things they believe to be non-bullshit and go in that direction. Perhaps the only guaranteed purpose for life is to continue itself, which se…

Yes, but you can see this both ways. You could also say that there isn't any purpose to be found anywhere else, so all the purpose must be in the recursive grind of continuing - or growing, or exploring, which are a couple of other values. Learning. If we have this idea of purpose, why not attach it to some candidate quest or value? What's wrong with recursion anyway? Too meaningless to be your goal? You must have hi…

> You could also say that there isn't any purpose to be found anywhere else, so all the purpose must be in the recursive grind of continuing

I really like this angle and do find my own solace in this approach, but I've never quite been able to convince myself that it's not essentially just an artificial or manufactured purpose. Which is fine. It's useful for my own goals and personal growth. But it still feels like a very localised view. If there is some kind of global maxima, I certainly haven't heard about it yet.

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#85

Post by seizethecheese »

WalterBright wrote: post #54
rsyring wrote: post #3

How to enter a city like a king? Humbly, on a donkey. As one who comes to serve instead of one who comes to be served. What a difference from what we can expect from our current leaders, kings or king wannabees alike.

You can thank George Washington for rejecting the trappings of kings - "your Excellency", sceptres, crowns, robes, palaces, thrones, a chest full of medals, bowing and scraping, heredity succession, etc.

I just read a book on Washington and they were calling him Your Excellency a lot. Did he reject this later, or did you mean this more rhetorically?

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#86

Post by churchill »

IAmBroom wrote: post #79
churchill wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't say for all monarchs through human history (nor is it even possible to), but for the Roman emperors, 70% died violent deaths via assassination (actual and suspected), execution, suicide, or being KIA. You had some particularly colorful episodes like the year of the four emperors where Nero's regional governors revolted and he committed suicide. Galba, a general, was declared imperator by his troops, only to be…

> Can't say for all monarchs through human history (nor is it even possible to) Since human history is by definition what has been recorded, a small subset of what has happened, it is roughly possible. Granted, there exist records of monarchs whose deaths were not recorded, but we can still make pretty good estimates I think.

>Since human history is by definition what has been recorded

Isn't that just dabbling into semantics? There are numerous societies & cultures we can definitely prove existed, without having further info on specifics such as their monarchs, etc. Your statement on human history sounds like, "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

It's still an instance in spacetime and our detailed knowledge of it doesn't delegitimize it.

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#87

Post by card_zero »

sunrunner wrote: post #84
card_zero wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but you can see this both ways. You could also say that there isn't any purpose to be found anywhere else, so all the purpose must be in the recursive grind of continuing - or growing, or exploring, which are a couple of other values. Learning. If we have this idea of purpose, why not attach it to some candidate quest or value? What's wrong with recursion anyway? Too meaningless to be your goal? You must have hi…

> You could also say that there isn't any purpose to be found anywhere else, so all the purpose must be in the recursive grind of continuing I really like this angle and do find my own solace in this approach, but I've never quite been able to convince myself that it's not essentially just an artificial or manufactured purpose. Which is fine. It's useful for my own goals and personal growth. But it still feels like a…

I worried about the ultimate purpose for years and years, and people would offer me unsatisfactory answers like "the point is, there is no point". But in the end I just looked up a long list of commonly held values, and thought: OK, so I don't agree with all of it, and what I'm left with is an incoherent laundry list of values, and the overview of the whole thing is very impressionistic, but fair enough. Got to be Popperian about it: we're guessing, badly, and trying gradually to do better. The point is, there are several vague points.

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#89

Post by spencerflem »

WalterBright wrote: post #51
spencerflem wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like 30% of our GDP is advertising - a pursuit I’d claim not just worthless but actively making everyone else’s life just a little worse. Sports are part of what makes life worth living though :)

Without advertising, how would you know what products were available? How would you know where to obtain them?

Coke is the biggest spender - what about their product do we not know about?

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#90

Post by paddleon »

seizethecheese wrote: post #85
WalterBright wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can thank George Washington for rejecting the trappings of kings - "your Excellency", sceptres, crowns, robes, palaces, thrones, a chest full of medals, bowing and scraping, heredity succession, etc.

I just read a book on Washington and they were calling him Your Excellency a lot. Did he reject this later, or did you mean this more rhetorically?

he rejected it from the beginning.

https://www.heritage.org/commentary/the-man-who-would-not-be...

After the [revolutionary] war, there were calls for Washington to claim formal political power. Indeed, seven months after the victory at Yorktown, one of his officers suggested what many thought only reasonable in the context of the 18th century: that America should establish a monarchy and that Washington should become king. A shocked Washington immediately rejected the offer out of hand as both inappropriate and dishonorable, and demanded the topic never be raised again.

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