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State Terror, American Style

paulkrugman.substack.com

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Re: State Terror, American Style

#81

Post by tallanvor »

iseletsk wrote: post #47

I visited Portland a month ago. There are security guards at each pharmacy and supermarket. I got screamed at by a violent/homeless person because I walked on her block. Some streets - and we are talking downtown/center - I was just afraid or disgusted to walk on. So, yes, Portland is a dump that needs to get cleaned up.

I was in Portland less than a month ago and had no problems. Sure, there was one time I crossed the street to avoid someone who was clearly homeless and mentally ill, but I never found myself feeling unsafe.

Unfortunately homelessness is something that can't be solved by one city or even one state. Feeding, housing, and getting them treatment is expensive and not something even the wealthier cities have the budget to do on their own. And the first major city that tries will have to deal with other places dropping more homeless people on their doorstep - that's one thing that both red and blue cities have been guilty of as you can read about at https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...

Re: State Terror, American Style

#82

Post by throw0101a »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #49
ModernMech wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not be naive -- scaring people into compliance is what they do to conservatives via Fox News. With liberals, deploying the military to their cities is about instigating actual violence, so they can imprison and kill them.

Ah. They actually want a violent confrontation. That would explain some things.

> Ah. They actually want a violent confrontation. That would explain some things.

There's a movement all about making things go faster so the 'rebuilding' part can then happen sooner:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism

Re: State Terror, American Style

#83

Post by throw0101a »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #77
bko wrote: post #9

[flagged]

>and if local or state police weren't effective enough, they would welcome federal police. I don't think anyone wants a timeline where tanks are patrolling the roads. There's a reason our military outside the national guard doesn't focus on domestic action unless there's a dire emergency. >They see some dude with a criminal record and face tattoos and think "this person probably shouldn't be in our country". You coul…

> I don't think anyone wants a timeline where tanks are patrolling the roads. There's a reason our military outside the national guard doesn't focus on domestic action unless there's a dire emergency.

This was mentioned a few decades ago (in 2004, the post-9/11 environment) by Battlestar Galactica:

> There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state. The other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnZ53lPPsF0

* https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/8/14/6002211/battlestar-gala...

Re: State Terror, American Style

#84

Post by throw0101a »

actionfromafar wrote: post #18
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article, from my reading, is separating this particular behaviour from normal law enforcement behaviour, and within that space of difference is the problem. It is a problem of recent creation.

Exactly. The police may or may not be good, but these raids are like the brownshirts in Germany. Not regular police.

> Exactly. The police may or may not be good, but these raids are like the brownshirts in Germany. Not regular police.

Recent observation I came across: folks like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers stopped marching ever since the ICE raids started.

Re: State Terror, American Style

#85

Post by Herring »

atmavatar wrote: post #80
throwaway173738 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How convenient that you have an argument for lumping together both a party that wants to continue the liberal democracy and a party that wants to cling to power at the expense of creating an actual authoritarian state complete with a secret police.

We are a frog in a pot of water placed upon a stove. Every time the Republican party gains power, they turn up the burner. When the Democratic party gains power, they don't turn the burner up any further, but the most we can give them credit for is they may occasionally toss an ice cube in the water. They do not turn the burner down. They do not remove the pot from the stove. They do not take the frog out of the wate…

The last time Democrats tried to turn down the heat, they lost tons of seats countrywide, up and down the ballot.

https://www.quorum.us/data-driven-insights/under-obama-democ...

Your problem is the people. The call is coming from inside the house.

Biden is given 4 years to grow a tree, Trump is given 8 years to cut down as many trees as he can. The government is also intrinsically hard to change (filibuster, gerrymandering, fptp, electoral college, supreme court etc).

Re: State Terror, American Style

#86

Post by soraminazuki »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #65
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because we've gotten so used to avoiding political speech as a method of "civility", we've collectively put our heads in the sand. The people who were shouting their worries and concerns were told they were being political. Politics is just life now a days, I don't know how you can actually excise that.

I was just too young and things exploded by the time I really could start to understand what was gonig on. I was very early Elementasry for 9/11, Middle school for the GFC. I was early 20's focusing on college in 2016, which would have been the 2nd nationals I could vote in. Then I was only a few years into my career when COVID hit. The Obama era gave me hopes, but I didn't realize how easily it could be relinquished…

I guess we grew up in the same era, but I couldn't disagree more about any administration giving hopes. While Obama mostly didn't make things dramatically worse, he did keep the status quo and all the troubling policies that came with it. Refusing to prosecute Bush-era crimes? Check. Keeping Guantanamo? Check. Expanding illegal mass-surveillance systems? Check. Expanding military drone programs and extrajudicially killing civilians outside of war zones? Check. Breaking the record on whistleblower prosecutions? Check. That's in stark contrast to the leniency given to those who caused the financial crisis. On the positive side, I guess he tried to fix healthcare, but it's still broken as ever.

It was so bad that it's unbelievable that subsequent administrations managed to make matters even more astronomically worse.

Re: State Terror, American Style

#87

Post by naldb »

tallanvor wrote: post #81
iseletsk wrote: post #47

I visited Portland a month ago. There are security guards at each pharmacy and supermarket. I got screamed at by a violent/homeless person because I walked on her block. Some streets - and we are talking downtown/center - I was just afraid or disgusted to walk on. So, yes, Portland is a dump that needs to get cleaned up.

I was in Portland less than a month ago and had no problems. Sure, there was one time I crossed the street to avoid someone who was clearly homeless and mentally ill, but I never found myself feeling unsafe. Unfortunately homelessness is something that can't be solved by one city or even one state. Feeding, housing, and getting them treatment is expensive and not something even the wealthier cities have the budget to…

> there was one time I crossed the street to avoid someone who was clearly homeless and mentally ill, but I never found myself feeling unsafe.

Seems a contradiction.

Re: State Terror, American Style

#88

Post by myvoiceismypass »

atmavatar wrote: post #80
throwaway173738 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How convenient that you have an argument for lumping together both a party that wants to continue the liberal democracy and a party that wants to cling to power at the expense of creating an actual authoritarian state complete with a secret police.

We are a frog in a pot of water placed upon a stove. Every time the Republican party gains power, they turn up the burner. When the Democratic party gains power, they don't turn the burner up any further, but the most we can give them credit for is they may occasionally toss an ice cube in the water. They do not turn the burner down. They do not remove the pot from the stove. They do not take the frog out of the wate…

> how often do you really see them repealing bad laws passed by Republicans - especially the disastrous tax cuts and sabotage of government agencies?

how often do you see a D majority in the House AND the Senate with a D president?

Re: State Terror, American Style

#90

Post by antisthenes »

soraminazuki wrote: post #86
johnnyanmac wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just too young and things exploded by the time I really could start to understand what was gonig on. I was very early Elementasry for 9/11, Middle school for the GFC. I was early 20's focusing on college in 2016, which would have been the 2nd nationals I could vote in. Then I was only a few years into my career when COVID hit. The Obama era gave me hopes, but I didn't realize how easily it could be relinquished…

I guess we grew up in the same era, but I couldn't disagree more about any administration giving hopes. While Obama mostly didn't make things dramatically worse, he did keep the status quo and all the troubling policies that came with it. Refusing to prosecute Bush-era crimes? Check. Keeping Guantanamo? Check. Expanding illegal mass-surveillance systems? Check. Expanding military drone programs and extrajudicially ki…

> I guess he tried to fix healthcare

Yeah, he tried, but anyone with working brain cells could tell you that ACA was just going to end up in a bigger payout to the healthcare industry. It was a status quo pro-corporate bill just like the rest of his centrist policies.

The actual solution has and always will be to reduce costs, which means people losing jobs and hospital admins not owning 3 vacation homes.

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